Uppercut Swing

[Wellphyt]

Wellphyt, it seems as if many are jockying for your attention. Not me. I sent you a pm. I hope you read it. Here's the bottom line. I've taught and coached for a few decades. I've had much success in both softball and baseball. Still, what I teach and believe in had to make sense to me. I found that with what SE teaches as well as the concept that PCR has to occur in the Major League swing and so, how. Then, discussion on mechanics or points of emphasis that followed made sense to me. You have to find the same thing. You seem to have found that in Ted Williams's stuff. Great! Run with it. No matter how much I type, if you ain't buying, I ain't selling.

I'm really bad at checking my PM. Which is probably not a bad thing lately.

Yes Ted Williams is my model. I believe he was the greatest hitter of all time and like many knowledgeable baseball people, believe he had the best mechanics. The reason it's hard for me to buy into another approach has nothing to do with personalities or my 'guru is better than your guru' syndrome...it's just pure logic. I'm not going to lay out a logical argument here because it would just stir things up more than they already are, but I can assure you that I can make a very compelling case to continue on my current path.

I also coach. Been doing it for eight years at the lower levels. I do it strictly for fun. I grew up playing baseball and just love being at the ballfield.

As far as people jockeying for my attention, I can't say I agree with that...and I can assure you that I'm not one to be influenced by others. Especially on a message board.

 

[Wellphyt]

I've been reading some of the threads at BBF. The "Fundamental Swing Q&A" thread was very interesting. What I'm learning is that green, red and yellow lines can be drawn on video clips of Ml hitters to show anything.

The side by side clips of Pujols are a good example. Red and green lines are drawn on the clip to illustrate how he supposedly tilts. I know what I see in the clip, but I thought I would ask my wife (physical therapist) what she sees. She looks at it and immediately says "His upper body movement is caused by his knee and hip flexion". Which of course is exactly what is happening.

When Pujols strides he has a slight weight shift back so that he can pick up his front foot (check out his back knee and see how his back leg straightens). As he begins to plant his front foot he shifts some weight forward and places weight on the front foot. A hitter can't do this weight shift forward without some corresponding movement in the upper torso because in order to do the weight shift the knees and hips have to flex. If Pujols was consciously trying to tilt his body he would be bending at the waist, which he clearly isn't.

IMO what these clips illustrate is that a hitter's upper body moves in relationship to knee and hip flexion as they stride. It does not illustrate a hitter consciously trying to tilt their upper body to match swing plane to the oncoming pitch.

I also thought the Mankin analysis of Teixeira was very eye opening. It certainly fits my understanding of how ML hitters maintain plate coverage. Hit the inside pitch out front of the lead knee and let the outside pitch get deep. Minimal to no tilting of the body over the plate. This is the Ted Williams approach to hitting.

 

[tom.guerry]

well-

Always good to have a trainer in the family.

Along the lines of upper/lower body synch, I think an important factor is that the balance is around the back hip joint as you load/prepare to drop and tilt.

This is why the Epstein description of stride to balance at toe touch then feel rotation supported by inside of back thigh is a good description for his drills.

The Slaught/Candrea description of rotating around front hip messes things up in my experience.

 

[CoachB25]

IMO what these clips illustrate is that a hitter's upper body moves in relationship to knee and hip flexion as they stride. It does not illustrate a hitter consciously trying to tilt their upper body to match swing plane to the oncoming pitch.

"Conscience thought?" To be consistent then wouldn't that include that a hitter in tenths of a second can't thing "throw my hands at the ball?" Wouldn't it then be consistent to suggest that a hitter can't think "top hand torque?" Wouldn't it be consistent that a hitter is unable to think, "weathervane?" Are you suggesting that hitters don't tilt? Are you suggesting that there isn't some tilt adjustment on pitches? Would you say that BM or others can't provide exact proof of this very thing happening? I can't since I don't have a server to load this stuff on. I'm betting this could get interesting.

 

[Slapper23]

Hi Darrell,

I think Well was just saying that ML hitters do not bend forward at the waist/tilt toward the plate to set plane path. As Well further pointed out..

Minimal to no tilting of the body over the plate.

.

I would agree in the sense of no bending at the waist to set swing plane, but there are many hitters setting up in their stance in the athletic position, and who further sit as they begin rotating. I find these two facts have no relationship to the PCR/Englishbey mindset of "bending (forward)at the waist to set swing plane." I'm more in the view that the hitter does laterally tilt the upper torso/shoulders to help get the hands flat quickly, then rotation ensues as the hands/arms/bat connection finds the ball.

Mike

 

[Wellphyt]

As I've said before I think THT is a non-voluntary movement that should not be taught. If someone believes THT can improve the swing then I would recommend squeezing a rubber ball like TW did to strengthen the wrist and forearms, and leave it at that.

Weathervaning is not something that is taught, rather the general concept of working the front elbow up or down is conveyed to the hitter. Basically all you're telling the hitter is that it's "ok" to allow the front elbow to change planes to help the barrel "find the ball". The movement itself is non-voluntary.

Of course I believe ML hitters tilt. They tilt all the time. The clip of Manny hitting a pitch 4 inches off the ground for a home run shows some serious tilt. But does anyone seriously believe that his tilt was a conscious decision by the brain to adjust body posture to set swing plane? Of course not. It was an instinctive on-the-fly adjustment by a gifted athlete to an oncoming pitch.

IMO ML hitters do not tilt over the plate and then swing or consciously think of tilting over the plate to hit a pitch. What TW, Bonds, Pujols etc. do, is they laterally tilt and rotate simultaneously to get to the "palm up/palm down" position quickly. IMO that is the blueprint that should be taught in regards to tilt. I believe any additional tilt over the plate beyond the basic blueprint is the result of the hitter's eye hand coordination telling the body to "Go Find The Ball".

 

[CoachB25]

Mike,

I think the difference then is that it comes down to how you want to teach that concept. As you know, I've taught a similar concept for years (23+) where I addressed the issue as "nose over the plate." No one I know says that this is a bend at the waist without out also having other core elements involved. Some might find the notion that "butt out" is too drastic. I don't believe that this is any different cue based exaggeration than a lot of various examples you and I could both point out. Again, as I've stated, I view PCR as a checkoff. It then comes down to how one wants to teach the mechanics. In saying so, and with regards to adjustibility, I incorporate a couple of different drills to simulate that concept. I think all hitters adjust including tilt. JMHO! Mike, you've seen my child's swing. Given that swing, is there anything in that swing that when you see it, you can denote any teaching philosophy? If so, I've done something wrong since I believe that what I'm really working on is the ability to use SE's stuff and mine to create a swing and not a model of any one philosophy. Certainly at the National Coaches Clinic recently when she was asked to be a demonstrator along with 13 other girls, for various D-I coaches in their presentations, she was picked most often to demonstrate. They apparently liked what they saw. Take care Mike.

Edited to add:

I apologize if the above sounds like bragging. BB has a long way to go before she's a top notch hitter. Still, if all you have is a little pond, why not be a big fish in it. ;-)

 

[Slapper23]

Dang it, Darrell, you're making do some work here! Luckily, I still had a original response to you concerning your daughter's swing. I had said she looks to be very athletic from her movements and I like her intent to hit the ball hard. In terms of what she has been taught, I said and I can see the lead arm/lead shoulder dominance in her swing, but that is expected as that is what she has drilled on. That would be an Englishbey influence. I also mentioned her shifting, then swinging. But then again as you mentioned to me, she was just coming back from injury. I don't want to say more because this isn't the place.

Would I put her in my lineup? Of course! Are you bragging? Not at all, IMO. I'm tickled for you...seriously. And I hope she does very well and ends up with a softball scholarhip, if she so desires.

Darrell, at least she is still playing. My 13 yo./7th grade granddaughter, Shelby, just made a big decision a few days ago to no longer play softball (remember, this is Indiana) - and she could rake it! But, she LOVES basketball, and is getting better all the time. She is 5'8" and still growing. A key to this is she is always asking me to take her to the local high school so she can work on her game. I'm a little disappointed in her decision, but then again, I respect it. She wants to play b-ball all summer in leagues and 3 on 3's. Hopefully, we'll look back in several years and say..."Good decision!"

Take care and I hope you're daughter has a great and sucessful season!
Mike

 

[Wellphyt]

I would agree in the sense of no bending at the waist to set swing plane, but there are many hitters setting up in their stance in the athletic position, and who further sit as they begin rotating.

I don't think that anyone would disagree that setting up in an athletic position in the stance is important. By definition a proper athletic position includes a bend at the waist. I like the cue "sink" to describe the proper athletic position. I think CoachB25's "nose over the plate" cue is also pretty good. I've never had any luck with the "butt out" cue.

I do believe a hitter's batting stance is their own personal style and should not be taught as part of technique. Griffey and Pujols are two examples of hitters with two totally different stances.

 

[Mark H]

Wellphyt,

Good research. If you continue to read over there I suggest paying special attention to what Boardmember posts.