Trying to understand pitching stats.

[Cobb_of_Fury]

FIP just seem so convoluted if any stat is Fantasy baseball/Bill Jamesien sabermetric it that - Why is a HR worth 13? a solo home run is only worth one but a bases loaded home run is worth 4 but FIP weighs them the same and then doesn't measure any other hits - a better measure would be a weighted scale with BB, Single, Double. Triple, HR and K's having a specific value - But even that doesn't show true effectives since a two out double with no one on counts less than a lead off walk in my book.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

FIP just seem so convoluted if any stat is Fantasy baseball/Bill Jamesien sabermetric it that - Why is a HR worth 13? a solo home run is only worth one but a bases loaded home run is worth 4 but FIP weighs them the same and then doesn't measure any other hits - a better measure would be a weighted scale with BB, Single, Double. Triple, HR and K's having a specific value - But even that doesn't show true effectives since a two out double with no one on counts less than a lead off walk in my book.

You are misunderstanding the statistic.

FIELDING INDEPENDENT Pitching.

Now before you start on why you don't like the stat try and think about the purpose of the stat and why it's better than say ERA and WHIP.

 

[FP26]

You say FIP is better and I think it can be someone useful in a closed environment, but for TB where so many games are played with no fences or on slowpitch fields, the defense controls almost every HR. If you have fast OF's that can knock downs shots in the gaps it makes a huge difference. Our pitchers let up 10 HR's in one tournament on an artificial turf field and 2 in the other 7 we've played.

I understand your frustration with the "no fence fields" but that is something that can go both ways. Our team has only played one game on a fenceless field so far this summer. First at bat, DD hit a gapper that the center fielder did a nice job cutting it off holding DD to a double. Her next at bat the other coaches asked the OF to back up a few steps. DD hit a shot that was probably 215 feet but was caught by the left fielder. Very frustrating.... It would have been out of any other field we have played on this summer, but was nothing but an F7 in that game. The nice thing about statistics is that there are so many to choose from. If FIP doesn't fit your specific situation, use something else. As the dad of a pitcher that doesn't get a lot of strike outs, I may be a bit biased. For example, the girl DD competed with at high school had more than twice as many strike outs as DD. But DD was better in virtually every other category and only had a fraction of the walks. In fact, DD had less walks than the other pitcher had wild pitches, in a similar amount of innings. But many of the "bleacher people" dig the strike out, if you know what I mean.

Sorry for the rant... Lol

 

[canyonjoe]

FP, I would say that your post points out how useless the stat is. If that was my CF you DD would have had 2 HR's and our pitcher would have had 26 added to her FIPS on the same ball. It's exactly the opposite of what the stat is supposed to measure. Again I'm sure in College or High School where almost all fields are fenced it's a great stat and useful to compare pitchers. I actually like the concept. I might add on some sort of measure that adds something depending on the number on base but as someone pointed out all stats have some problems.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

I haven't coached a game without a fence in a decade. Your point is taken that at younger ages you may have to factor that in.

To put this another way. If you could only know one stat about two pitchers which one would you look at? Let's say one pitches class 5A high school and the other pitches 2A. How do you compare the two? Wins? ERA? MPH? K/BB?

For me I would want to know FIP.

It's not the end all of pitching stats but it's the best one I look at the most.

 

[Cobb_of_Fury]

Gunner - I understand the stat but - I think it's like any stat - it gives you a certain amount of feedback -
and I understand by ruling out the other players and just looking at what the pitcher does without them you get a better view of the pitcher -

I just don't think it would be my #1 stat - but as you said in your example if your looking at players coming from different levels it is good measuring stick.

I think most of us on the board here are more interested on measuring girls on our own staff who play in front of essentially the same 8 girls against generally the same level of competition - I'm not sure it's the best tool to compare that.


I don't want to say it's not a useful tool it really is (and honestly I may start looking at it - I never had in the past). I don't think there is the perfect stat that completely levels the field and gives you all the feedback you need or want - Of course that's where advances stats and SIBERMETRICS came from - trying to fill that gap.

Honestly I'm of the mind - if there are certain things YOU find important build a stat that gives you that information you are not tied to what exists because some one else made it - you are free to make your own stats. a simple excel spread sheet can give you reams of information all you need is the numbers.


JUST BE PREPAIRED TO EXPLAIN IT TO THE PITCHERS PARENTS

 

[canyonjoe]

I don't think you can use any stat to compare people playing in different classes.

Someone might hit 20 HR's in class 2A but only 5 in 5A. Just like you can't take a guy who is 10-2 in AA and replace your major league 5-5 pitcher with him.

In the end Stats are what you value them to be. I agree that many of the old school stats can be misleading. I'm just cringing now thinking that some Mom
on my team is going to start hitting me that her DD has a lower FIP number.

The one positive that I do like about this number (assuming you have legit fences) is that there is no subjectivity. That I do like.