Trying to understand pitching stats.

[FP26]

It just doesn't make a ton of sense to me in softball when you don't have fences on many fields. Defense can save (or cost) you on artificial turf fields. Or in the majors a sinkerball pitcher might get shelled but not let up a lot of HR. I'm not a pitching coach, but to me it means nothing.

That is typically how statistics work. Find the statistics that explain what you are looking for and go from there. I have not used FIP in the past, but I can see some situations when it could be useful. Let's say you have similar pitchers. One plays for a team with a strong defense, the other for a team with a weak defense. Obviously the ERAs will vary because of the number of errors, but the team with the better defense may also have fielders with better range. FIP can help filter out some of those items to allow better comparisons pitcher to pitcher. All depends what you are looking for...

 

[canyonjoe]

That is typically how statistics work. Find the statistics that explain what you are looking for and go from there. I have not used FIP in the past, but I can see some situations when it could be useful. Let's say you have similar pitchers. One plays for a team with a strong defense, the other for a team with a weak defense. Obviously the ERAs will vary because of the number of errors, but the team with the better defense may also have fielders with better range. FIP can help filter out some of those items to allow better comparisons pitcher to pitcher. All depends what you are looking for...

I didn't mean to jump on it like I did. I love all kinds of stats but sometimes they just seem odd. I get this concept, just not sure I agree with it at least at lower levels. In HS or College it would mean a little more but really only in the context of your own team. Fence distance,etc can make a huge difference. I do appreciate you explaining it to me.

 

[grcsftbll]

What is a good WHIP # for a first year 10U pitcher? I've tried to Google this before but haven't seen anything come up.

 

[FP26]

What is a good WHIP # for a first year 10U pitcher? I've tried to Google this before but haven't seen anything come up.

Honestly, at 10u I wouldn't worry about it too much. WHIP is based on "walks" and "hits". In many cases, the person doing the book at a 10u game has a different definition of a hit vs an error than someone doing the book at a 16u or 18u game. Therefore I am not sure I would trust a statistic such as WHIP at that age group. I also would not spend much time measuring a 10u pitcher's stats against another 10u pitcher's stats. In my opinion, the most important person for her to compete against is herself. Always strive to improve. If you want to measure this improvement, consider "WIP" instead of "WHIP", or basically "walks per innings pitched". Measure this over the course of several games, and then measure it again later in the season. Aim for consistent improvement. Also, when she is missing locations, is she off by a couple of inches, or off by a couple of feet? Ball four is ball four, but I would prefer to see the pitcher miss by 3 inches off the corner then sail one 6 feet over the catcher's head. Even at 18u and high school ball I will still see some significant variation between pitchers.

 

[Axe]

What is a good WHIP # for a first year 10U pitcher? I've tried to Google this before but haven't seen anything come up.

At the younger ages avoid stats that bring in what the defense did or score keepers judgment of a hit vs. error. 10U/12U score keepers tend to be very generous with the defense.

Focus on her goals and things she can control like strike %, first pitch strike %, BB/IP, K/BB ratio. I like pitches per innings because my DD tends to be very efficient but a couple of booted ground balls can obviously make this go haywire as well.

 

[Legendsmom]

What would be considered good for pitches per inning for 14u?


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[GunnerShotgun]

Is FIP 13*HR+3BB-2k/IP +3.2?

So if you don't walk anybody strikeout 3 in one inning but let up 20 triples you have a perfect FIP score. That seems like more of a
majors stat when they let up a lot more HR's, but maybe I'm reading it wrong?

Legendsmom, that's a very good number.

If you torture the numbers long enough you can get them to say anything. What is the one stat that correlates to runs scored in softball? It's home runs.

You can bash on FIP all you want but it serves a very specific function for measuring pitcher effectiveness.

WHIP is a fantasy baseball statistic and it is a crappy stat for evaluating pitching performance.

 

[FP26]

Out of curiosity I decided to look back at the High School numbers from this spring. DD was a sophomore and started the year pitching behind the senior. DD didn't pitch at all during the first few games, then started to pitch in relief. At about the half way point of the season, the coach made the switch and DD pitched the rest of the season. I have never looked at FIP before, but it seems representative of other stats. Here are some comparisons.

DD - ERA = 2.14 / Strike Ratio = 65% / FIP = .65 She is not a strike out pitcher but did not allow a single home run. I attribute the low FIP to that.
Senior - ERA = 4.65 / Strike Ratio = 56% / FIP = 2.21. While their total innings were very close, the senior allowed 5 home runs. This had a profound impact on her FIP.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

FIP is basically everything a pitcher controls: Hit batters, walks, strikeouts, and home runs.

The defense controls none of that.

FIP is better than ERA from a statistical perspective in that it takes out the bias (defensive ability, luck, and sequencing).

 

[canyonjoe]

You say FIP is better and I think it can be someone useful in a closed environment, but for TB where so many games are played with no fences or on slowpitch fields, the defense controls almost every HR. If you have fast OF's that can knock downs shots in the gaps it makes a huge difference. Our pitchers let up 10 HR's in one tournament on an artificial turf field and 2 in the other 7 we've played.