Too Many Teams

[Rick M]

Just a quick thanks to everyone. I was hoping to prompt some intelligent discussion in the doldrums before the fall season begins, and DFP does not disappoint

 

[The Man In Blue]

girls are not going to get ready for TB playing rec as it stands now in most places...simple fact.

This is correct, but it was Pattar was trying to remedy in the post right above it.

It was what I was working on trying to remedy back when I ran our local rec program. There is a bridge to be built that will benefit both community and travel programs ... the problem is it would change the existing landscape and those with “power” don’t want that.

It took me a few years to learn that and develop a plan. Once I did I found several like-minded program administrators from other towns. We had a damn good plan. However, after two years we all got fed up and quit due to the resistance from coaches who were only concerned about their own teams. (The irony is, each one of those coaches had left rec and took “their” team to go play travel ... they got their butts handed to them, alienated tons of girls and parents, and then came back to rec to try to be “big fish” there.)

 

[Rick M]

It was what I was working on trying to remedy back when I ran our local rec program.

Just out of curiosity, did you have a child in the program when you ran it? If so, was s/he the youngest of a group?

We were fairly lucky with our local Rec program that the softball VP had two daughters, so by the time he was running things he knew what to do. Now that he's aging out, there's nobody to take his place that isn't doing this for the first time. That's another major pitfall to local organizations -- volunteers with the best of intentions but no real idea about what needs to be done.

Of course, even with all of the foresight in the world, our Rec program is still dominated by baseball parents, so getting anything done for the girls is like pulling teeth. Fortunately, the outgoing VP had perfected being kind of a jerk, so by the end he was left to his own devices.

 

[let it be fun]

I have a hard time believing that a sport that is growing in number and commitment is weaker than it was years ago. Perhaps those 15 "legitimate A teams" from yesteryear would be on par with today's B teams. I don't see how you drastically increase participation and the result is that everyone gets worse.

I am not talking "yesteryear" I am talking 10 years ago. Those A teams were 90% in large organizations with 1-2 teams at every age group from 10 - 18. Those teams were stacked with good players. I would take those dozen or so A teams and play them against the top 3-4 A teams in an area today and they would have good games. The commitment of the best girls is the same yesterday as it is today. With fewer teams those "best" girls were stacked up on teams. By youngest DD's 1st year 12U team had 4 really good pitchers, power hitters, speed, good defense and was legitimately 11 players deep. We played against other similar teams. Maybe A ball is like that today in your area. I haven't seen it in my area. I was responding to the post someone made about the top few A teams not having anyone in the area to play competitively against.

 

[uncdrew]

This is correct, but it was Pattar was trying to remedy in the post right above it.

It was what I was working on trying to remedy back when I ran our local rec program. There is a bridge to be built that will benefit both community and travel programs ... the problem is it would change the existing landscape and those with “power” don’t want that.

It took me a few years to learn that and develop a plan. Once I did I found several like-minded program administrators from other towns. We had a damn good plan. However, after two years we all got fed up and quit due to the resistance from coaches who were only concerned about their own teams. (The irony is, each one of those coaches had left rec and took “their” team to go play travel ... they got their butts handed to them, alienated tons of girls and parents, and then came back to rec to try to be “big fish” there.)

I'm curious to hear what your plan was.

We're hitting all kinds of political BS as well. Seems some older, established board members who don't even have daughters who play anymore are just trying to keep things the same. Good times.

 

[Vertigo]

I just want to comment about being a parent who formed my own team. It’s not necessarily always about wanting to do it for your kid because they couldn’t make other teams.

Dd’s first travel team was a team I put together after she was done with Little League at age 13. Myself and 3 dad’s who coached together since 8U and really enjoyed it had a nice core group that wanted to stick together and try out travel ball. We started out as C level and quickly moved up to B. We joined a very small local org which had a 16U and 18U team. It enabled us to get fields and an indoor facility for extremely cheap. We were extremely transparent with our parents telling them what our goals were and that we wanted to develop the kids to be good enough to make their high school teams. Nothing more. We were low cost making it very affordable for the families who couldn’t afford the “travel teams with the fancy uniforms.” I actually subsidized a couple of players as well with my own money. I didn’t want to turn away decent players who loved the game for not being able to cover the full cost - and no - I did not charge the other families who could afford it more money. I split the team cost evenly among the full team of 12 and I picked up the extra cost of the 2 players. My coaches and I also paid the full amount for our kids.

Are there a lot of teams out there that start up for “daddy ball” reasons - yes. However, I’m sure there are a few out there like us who wanted to be that bridge for the gap between rec and higher level travel ball, especially for the late-bloomers who didn’t know how good they actually were going to be.

 

[The Man In Blue]

It's actually harder to make the rec All-Star team than it is almost all of the travel teams in our community.

That’s because the All-Star is selected from existing players who have shown they belong there. Your spot on a travel team is guaranteed by the check you write.

In that regard, travel teams and college ball aren’t that different. If a girl wants to play in college, no matter how bad she is, somewhere there is a school that has a roster spot ... and a bill for tuition.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Here's another factor.

Some Travel Teams are cutting costs to next to nothing. Our Travel Team is now less costly than fall rec, spring rec and All-Stars combined. So it's cheaper to play Travel.

And they cut the costs because one family complained. I seriously fear we'll be in so few tournaments that we'll wish we were on another team.

My daughters played in a volleyball club that went this route. They had tryouts, formed the team, and then asked parents what they were willing to do. Seemed a little backwards to me.

When my girls played we alternated between two national qualifiers — one was cheaper and one guaranteed more games. Some years parents wanted more games, some years they wanted to spend less money.

This past year my middle daughter came back home and coached for the club. I asked her about going to one of the qualifiers and she said none of the parents wanted to go. They just wanted weekend local tournaments.

To me, design the teams and define the purpose ... then let the players pick which one to try out for.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Just out of curiosity, did you have a child in the program when you ran it? If so, was s/he the youngest of a group?

We were fairly lucky with our local Rec program that the softball VP had two daughters, so by the time he was running things he knew what to do. Now that he's aging out, there's nobody to take his place that isn't doing this for the first time. That's another major pitfall to local organizations -- volunteers with the best of intentions but no real idea about what needs to be done.

Of course, even with all of the foresight in the world, our Rec program is still dominated by baseball parents, so getting anything done for the girls is like pulling teeth. Fortunately, the outgoing VP had perfected being kind of a jerk, so by the end he was left to his own devices.

I'm curious to hear what your plan was.

We're hitting all kinds of political BS as well. Seems some older, established board members who don't even have daughters who play anymore are just trying to keep things the same. Good times.

I’ll create a new thread to avoid high-jacking this one. I need to contemplate if I want to keep it focused on the plan or go into the story of its demise ...

Yes, I had three daughters who played in the program. I always joked that I looked forward t the day when they weren’t playing. I had every intention of staying on afterwards.

 

[rslaubaugh]

There is so much good information on the internet nowadays anybody who wants to improve their coaching skills can. The problem is either people don't know what they don't know or are too lazy.

I am a rec coach who reads almost every post on these boards daily trying to learn as much as I can. 13 girls depend on me and I dont intend to let them down.