Too Many Teams

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NBECoach

Learning everyday
Aug 9, 2018
408
63
I just want to comment about being a parent who formed my own team. It’s not necessarily always about wanting to do it for your kid because they couldn’t make other teams.

Dd’s first travel team was a team I put together after she was done with Little League at age 13. Myself and 3 dad’s who coached together since 8U and really enjoyed it had a nice core group that wanted to stick together and try out travel ball. We started out as C level and quickly moved up to B. We joined a very small local org which had a 16U and 18U team. It enabled us to get fields and an indoor facility for extremely cheap. We were extremely transparent with our parents telling them what our goals were and that we wanted to develop the kids to be good enough to make their high school teams. Nothing more.

Are there a lot of teams out there that start up for “daddy ball” reasons - yes. However, I’m sure there are a few out there like us who wanted to be that bridge for the gap between rec and higher level travel ball, especially for the late-bloomers who didn’t know how good they actually were going to be.

Had a similar experience years ago. I was a Rec ball AC for 2 years under a great HC. We hit it off immediately and got along great. At that point (2nd year 12U) his DD tried out for a TB org and made the team. My DD continued to play rec ball by choice and I took over as Rec ball HC. I learned alot under the former HC and even more as my own HC. The next year my DD aged out of the Rec program so she tried out for the same TB team and made the squad. I got to spend the summer attending games with my buddy. His comments to me regarding the TB HC style. "You will see things that you never will believe". Well without citing specific instances (though I could) he was right.

There was a certain amount of "unrest" so at the end of that season the TB HC resigned and my buddy took over as HC and brought me on as AC. We coached that team through 2nd year 18U which included some 1st year college players. A great experience. 2 years later he approached me about being an AC under him with a startup TB 10U team (this was before U8). I jumped at the chance and we had a great time teaching these kids fundamentals, and had some local tournament success. We started year 2 with me being invited to coach the local HS JV team so I was excited that I would be working with 2 age groups. Once again good local success.

It was late summer just before fall ball when I got a call from my friend. He was diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer. He was gone after a 6 month battle. That was tough to see.

After that I decided to concentrate on the HS coaching and just be an instructor for the TB org.
 
May 27, 2013
2,353
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Another thing to point out was that we (dd and I) stuck with rec through 12U and then our LL ended there. We had no Juniors team, so if she wanted to continue playing she had to move to travel. We knew of a few local orgs in our area but admittedly I was not as knowledgeable about the travel ball scene then as I am now, so we wanted to test the waters first with our own team.

It is very true that many orgs will try to sell themselves as the best thing going and you must play for them if your dd wants to get noticed by colleges. There are several orgs I’m familiar with in our region who has or had that one extremely dominant player or two that has passed through who put a particular team in the org on the map. At the 1st year 14U level we just weren’t invested enough at that point to go to one of those orgs.
 
Aug 24, 2018
72
18
Agree!!
Over the years I have picked up some knowledge about pitching (to help DD). Recently a few parents have asked me and DD to work with their kids.
I'll be the first to say teaching children is very hard and takes a unique skill set that I admittedly do not posses
DD would disagree with you not possessing the skill set to teach kids, as would yours. Anytime she doesn't want to do something, we just tell her you said she should and it gets done. ;-)
 
Jan 21, 2019
12
3
Even for the really good teams, being one of those that have 8-9 really good players is a mixed blessing. Who are you going to play that will give you those 2-1 games?

When you said 3-5 girls who are really good and the rest are average, it made me think of MLB. Most teams have a handful of top talent hitting in the 3-4-5 spots, and a top pitcher or two. The rest of the team hovers around the league average, if you're lucky. And you know what? The whole league is competitive: the very best team will win 25% more games than the worst team.

This might be the best thing I've read in a while. Nail on the head IMO
 
Sep 5, 2012
53
8
Before posting this, I took a quick glance at the 16U portion of the local bulletin board. Since this past Sunday (8/11), no less than 8 teams have posted looking for an "A-level" or "Elite" pitcher or pitchers (plural). And only a couple of those are teams that I recognize and know to be legit A-level teams. I think the problem is that there just aren't enough A-level pitchers to go around. One excellent and two or three "meh" pitchers do not an elite A-level team make. It's like in Mean Girls: Coach, stop trying to make "A-level" happen!



And this is the problem in a nutshell...…...

I see it all the time. Too many coaches looking for ready-made elite players & not learning or putting in the effort to develop their own. It's a common problem. Too man "meh" coaches & not enough "elite" ones!
 
May 23, 2018
93
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Now that the silly season of tryouts is wrapping up, it's time for the local coaches out there to switch gears from posting their tryout info online to posting rants about how there are too many teams and that the talent pool is too diluted. There are raging discussions on three local TB message boards that I follow at the moment.

I'm struggling to understand the problem here. I think it's great that there are so many teams, and so many opportunities for girls to play softball at whatever level they are able to compete. The biggest gripe I hear from coaches is this 'dilution' of talent, but I can't get my head around why this is an issue.

I live in PA but DD plays for a team in NJ. Last season there were 10 A-level teams in NJ at the 12U level. In reality, the top four or five were way ahead of the rest. To me, that represents a problem of concentration, not dilution. If four teams have such a surplus of talent at 1-9, and four pitchers who dominate, what good does that do anyone? These are the coaches that are complaining that they have to travel out of state just to play a competitive game.

The funniest thing is the coaches that are starting new teams, and then complaining that there are too many teams out there and that they can't fill a roster. Well, boo-hoo :cry: Nobody is flocking to your Triple Diamond Elite Premiere Select Ladybugs even though you're a 12-time runner up for NFCA coach of the year. Oh, and your daughter is a pitcher.

Sorry, that's my rant for the day. If someone has a cogent argument for why there should be fewer softball teams in the world, I'm all ears.
I have been doing this longer than most of the coaches have been on this earth. Currently, I am an umpire so I get a bird's-eye view of some of the insane coaches, insane parents, and unabashedly shameful recruiters. First, there absolutely is a dilution of talent. It is not for the reasons that you outlined in your post. The number of girls playing softball has been more than cut in half due to year-round basketball, girls lacrosse, and the emergence of girls soccer year-round. I saw this coming 10 years ago, and every single recreation league in Massachusetts had suffered a precipitous decline in participation. So that is the 1st problem.

The 2nd problem is a money problem. A lot of these organizations exist solely for the purpose of putting bodies out there to pad their bottom line. How many organizations have 3, 4, 5, or more teams of an age level and the teams are extremely weak because no one really cares about the product that is being put out. If you can charge $2000 per girl for your organization, then your objective is really not to put out a quality product but to put out as many teams as possible to pad your bottom line.

The 3rd problem is one of equality – some guys are absolutely shameless in recruiting talent and can stockpile talent better than the next guy. Some coaches just want to start a team so that their daughter can be showcased on that team. How many times have you seen a coach whose daughter is the number 1 pitcher? That is the infamous daddy ball.

The 4th problem is what I call the transient player. A team is put together and then at the end of the year parents jump from team to team, virtually prostituting their daughters out in the process. Whatever happened to staying with the team and trying to improve your skill? Instead, you now have parents who think their daughter always is the number 1 pitcher or the number 1 shortstop and will try to keep moving her from team to team, never really being happy with where they are. As an umpire, I have to keep my mouth shut and just observe some of the insanity that I see. More likely than not, your daughters will never get anywhere near a Division I scholarship. In fact, the majority of the girls will never even sniff a Division II scholarship. But every young parent thinks that their daughter is the next Jenny Finch and will be attending college on a free ride. The truth of the matter is that if a girl has skill, and more importantly, has a track record of grades, the more likely than not she will be able to get aid at a Division III school. They do not have, athletic scholarships, but they do dole out financial aid.
 
May 23, 2018
93
18
And this is the problem in a nutshell...…...

I see it all the time. Too many coaches looking for ready-made elite players & not learning or putting in the effort to develop their own. It's a common problem. Too man "meh" coaches & not enough "elite" ones!

I really do not think it is an issue of the coaches. The issue, especially at 16U, is the pitching. If a girl's got tremendous skill and she is 14 she is either dominating on a very good 14U team or is being developed at 18U. What you have in the 16th are girls that are really not good enough to be playing 18 U ball. The other issue is that coaches who do want to put the time and try and develop players are being sandbagged by parents. If a girl is going to leave at the end of the season for greener pastures, why would a coach put all the extra time and effort in trying to develop for some other coach?
 
Dec 30, 2011
47
18
The money isn’t in having one good team. The money is in having a lot of teams.
Money!! Money, huge egos and the feeling of power are the main reasons for these huge organizations. That and to hoard players.
I coached travel ball for 22 years. The desire to make money has, in my opinion, ruined the true reason for organizing, managing and coaching a single team. The competitive nature has always been there. But the fun and reward from it has been greatly diminished. Very sad.
 
Dec 30, 2011
47
18
I have been doing this longer than most of the coaches have been on this earth. Currently, I am an umpire so I get a bird's-eye view of some of the insane coaches, insane parents, and unabashedly shameful recruiters. First, there absolutely is a dilution of talent. It is not for the reasons that you outlined in your post. The number of girls playing softball has been more than cut in half due to year-round basketball, girls lacrosse, and the emergence of girls soccer year-round. I saw this coming 10 years ago, and every single recreation league in Massachusetts had suffered a precipitous decline in participation. So that is the 1st problem.

The 2nd problem is a money problem. A lot of these organizations exist solely for the purpose of putting bodies out there to pad their bottom line. How many organizations have 3, 4, 5, or more teams of an age level and the teams are extremely weak because no one really cares about the product that is being put out. If you can charge $2000 per girl for your organization, then your objective is really not to put out a quality product but to put out as many teams as possible to pad your bottom line.

The 3rd problem is one of equality – some guys are absolutely shameless in recruiting talent and can stockpile talent better than the next guy. Some coaches just want to start a team so that their daughter can be showcased on that team. How many times have you seen a coach whose daughter is the number 1 pitcher? That is the infamous daddy ball.

The 4th problem is what I call the transient player. A team is put together and then at the end of the year parents jump from team to team, virtually prostituting their daughters out in the process. Whatever happened to staying with the team and trying to improve your skill? Instead, you now have parents who think their daughter always is the number 1 pitcher or the number 1 shortstop and will try to keep moving her from team to team, never really being happy with where they are. As an umpire, I have to keep my mouth shut and just observe some of the insanity that I see. More likely than not, your daughters will never get anywhere near a Division I scholarship. In fact, the majority of the girls will never even sniff a Division II scholarship. But every young parent thinks that their daughter is the next Jenny Finch and will be attending college on a free ride. The truth of the matter is that if a girl has skill, and more importantly, has a track record of grades, the more likely than not she will be able to get aid at a Division III school. They do not have, athletic scholarships, but they do dole out financial aid.
Perfect and right on. thanks for posting this.
 
Jul 14, 2018
982
93
First, there absolutely is a dilution of talent. It is not for the reasons that you outlined in your post. The number of girls playing softball has been more than cut in half due to year-round basketball, girls lacrosse, and the emergence of girls soccer year-round. I saw this coming 10 years ago, and every single recreation league in Massachusetts had suffered a precipitous decline in participation.

This is interesting. So if I'm understanding you correctly, the dilution of talent is not due to 'too many teams,' but rather to a bleeding out of the top athletes to other sports? Way back when I was a kid (okay; way, way waay back), the best athletes completed a year-long circuit of soccer-basketball-baseball, maybe the bigger kids did football-wrestling-lacrosse. Now that most sports have year-round opportunities to play and train, kids are specializing earlier.

There are other, longer threads that address this topic, so I won't go into too much detail. But it does make sense that there are many terrific athletes that never pick up a bat because they're playing soccer year-round. The absence of those top athletes must take the level of the game down a notch.

ETA: I'm sure there are geographical differences, but softball participation has exploded in my area. There are many, many teams to choose from. And even if the level of play isn't as high as it once was, I'm glad there are opportunities for every girl to play softball, from Rec up through PGF.
 
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