Tirade by Indiana softball coach forces university to investigate line between motiva

[MountieSB]

The hard way is a having a bit of understanding and not judging from the outside. You don't even know what was said. Tell Candrea about his shortcomings, I am sure he will listen. Here's the thing, I don't know where you guys are but I find it hard to believe your children have not come across a good coach that yells. Personally, I have played a ton of ball up to college, my eldest child has played to college, and other children are playing still and they only 2 situations I have seen where an opposing coach doesn't yell is a) the team and/or the coach isn't that good or b) the opposing team jumps out in front on the first inning and the game is no real competition. Pretty much all coaches yell at their kids from time to time in a competitive game. Doesn't make them a bad coach. Yes, I do realize I will have Mr. Little League respond, " I have never", refer to reason a for my rebuttal.

I coached a high school team for 17 years with a head coach who has over 530 varsity wins, four state championship appearances and two state championships. In all four of the championship games, neither head coach yelled at his players. Even with all those wins, he didn't make a habit of yelling at his players. It doesn't mean he didn't when they needed it, but it was infrequent and always appropriate.

In a related vein for those reading (and I know we're talking apples and oranges with the age group between this and D1 college players), over the weekend, my daughter's 10U team beat another team 16-5, and the head coach for the opposing team yelled all game long. After the game during the tournament's lunch break, he had his kids skip lunch and run extra laps and practice in 80+ degree weather because they performed "like they never played the game before!" I guess this is the kind of coach I'm talking about.

Sincerely, Mr. Little League

 

[Easton33]

I coached a high school team for 17 years with a head coach who has over 530 varsity wins, four state championship appearances and two state championships. In all four of the championship games, neither head coach yelled at his players. Even with all those wins, he didn't make a habit of yelling at his players. It doesn't mean he didn't when they needed it, but it was infrequent and always appropriate.

In a related vein for those reading (and I know we're talking apples and oranges with the age group between this and D1 college players), over the weekend, my daughter's 10U team beat another team 16-5, and the head coach for the opposing team yelled all game long. After the game during the tournament's lunch break, he had his kids skip lunch and run extra laps and practice in 80+ degree weather because they performed "like they never played the game before!" I guess this is the kind of coach I'm talking about.

Sincerely, Mr. Little League

Good post, first paragraph example is how I see this situation. Her players said this was not her "norm". So for whatever reason she felt like they needed it this time. Whether it be not hitting, not fielding, not hitting spots as a pitcher, whatever this coach that this team needed it this time. So don't agree with what little content we know about but I think she wasn't overboard. IMO most of these comments are geared thinking of young players but she told a college level player that is on their dime that they sucked that day. My opinion would change if this was a regular occurrence but it is not.

Second paragraph, is the epitome of bad coaching techniques. They are 10. Lastly, you aren't the Mr. Little League type I was referring too.

 

[cmustangsfp]

Why would you yell to reinforce an undesired habit?
"YOU SUCKED TODAY! YOU COULDN'T HIT THE BROADSIDE OF A BARN!
Thanks Captain Obvious! I wasn't aware of that. Next time out I will try to hit the ball, like we are all trying to do! Maybe it was your hit signs that were being overmatched by the other coaches pitching calls. Maybe, just maybe it was YOU that sucked today. Did you ever think of that possibility? No you didn't because you are the COACH. and we all KNOW that COACHES NEVER MAKE MISTAKES. So it must be the players. Yell on righteous crusader!

I believe it was a famous person named Jesus who said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. So let the first coach who has never made an error, never made a mistake, never had an off day, never ever screwed up in their life yell at the players.

 

[sluggers]

Please note that we are discussing at a college coach (who is paid to win) yelling at 19-22 YOA women who are getting paid to win. (A volunteer coaching a bunch of 10YOA girls in rec ball is completely different.)

My DDs were subjected to much, much worse in college. I doubt they would have even noticed.

Would it have been better if the coach invited a few of them into her office, gave them some punch and cookies, and said, "I've looked at your performance over the weekend. You played poorly. Your scholarship is terminated. Please clear out your locked by 5PM. Have a nice day!"

College ball really is all about winning. (Personally, the hypocrisy of a college coach talking at the weekly booster club meetings about "teaching leadership to young people" is enough to make me ill.)

If a kid does not want to be around passionate people trying to win games, they shouldn't play college ball.

 

[Easton33]

Herm Edwards- Greatest Coach Ever! - YouTube

 

[CoogansBluff]

The issue is not about simply yelling at players.

It's about ''berating players one-by-one, leaning in to yell in their faces,'' and about using profanity.

It's about telling players that they suck.

It's about the best ways to motivate and get the best out of young women. The players' reported reaction to this indicates that the coach's methods did not work and caused more problems than it helped. In fact, after this tirade, the team went on a 1-16 skid to finish the season. Nice pep talk.

The coach agrees that she was out of line: “I truly regret losing my composure and blowing up at my team and staff ... It was wrong and uncharacteristic of me to do so."

Unless, of course, you believe she's faking it to keep her job.

 

[MountieSB]

Please note that we are discussing at a college coach (who is paid to win) yelling at 19-22 YOA women who are getting paid to win. (A volunteer coaching a bunch of 10YOA girls in rec ball is completely different.)

My DDs were subjected to much, much worse in college. I doubt they would have even noticed.

Would it have been better if the coach invited a few of them into her office, gave them some punch and cookies, and said, "I've looked at your performance over the weekend. You played poorly. Your scholarship is terminated. Please clear out your locked by 5PM. Have a nice day!"

College ball really is all about winning. (Personally, the hypocrisy of a college coach talking at the weekly booster club meetings about "teaching leadership to young people" is enough to make me ill.)

If a kid does not want to be around passionate people trying to win games, they shouldn't play college ball.

Sluggers, I hear what you're saying, and I know you posted early that you don't condone this kind of behavior.

I still grow tired of the backhanded stabs at coaches who maintain their composure being called "milk and cookies coaches" and "lacking passion." You can be extremely passionate about softball, be highly demanding, and win big without being loud and abusive. Sure there are some that are wish-washy, milquetoast back-patters and terrible at coaching, just as there are wild, supercharged loudmouths who are terrible at coaching. Their manner doesn't equate to their understanding or passion for the game. Just my thoughts.

Edit: Sluggers, my experience is limited to coaching players through high school, so I do lack the perspective of a parent with a D1 kid. I haven't played for a D1 coach, so there may be a larger culture/atmosphere I'm unaware of, to be fair.

 

[02Crush]

I will once again weigh in. Last time as we are circling a bush on fire and not in agreement. And this is okay. It is what makes life good. I am NOT saying that yelling, barking, or being loud is wrong. I am saying calling out a player in front of other players DOES NOT WORK. It might at first. Then the player figures the game out and tunes it out. This leads to louder voices or more negativity by the coach. Which leads to MORE tuning out by the player. Which then leads to a melt down by the coach. As seen at IU which was what this post was about. It was about not ONE game but a 15 game loosing streak to finish the season dead last in the Big 10. Whether you agree with my coaching reference (only one BTW) or another posters is not the issue. The issues is this: Do you feel singling out, cursing at, berating a player publicly (and yes the locker room in front of many others is public) is okay? I think not. You seem to think it is okay. So we disagree.

Fine but consider this thought.... Everyone agrees that when one person does not do their job (whether on a team or at work) you address it. However I feel when it continues you attempt to work with the employee to correct it. If it still continues, then you remove the person from the post. The timeline for which this happens can be quick or slow and that is the leaders choice. This is real life. Good Bosses do this. Good Coaches do this. Yes there are jerks for bosses just as there are jerks for coaches who feel demeaning people and calling them out is okay. All I would say is, "who do you want to be. After all it IS YOUR choice."

 

[sluggers]

This is real life. Good Bosses do this.

Not the good bosses I've worked with. Of course, I don't care if s/he and I are golfing buddies or even friends. I'm primarily concerned about the money that goes into my checking account, not whether I get my hand held when I make a mistake.

The very successful people I've worked with are pushy, demanding and extremely aggressive. If you do a bad job, you will hear about it. I expect to be called out if I do a bad job. It goes with the territory.

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen (and the boardroom).

 

[cmustangsfp]

The players' reported reaction to this indicates that the coach's methods did not work and caused more problems than it helped. In fact, after this tirade, the team went on a 1-16 skid to finish the season. Nice pep talk.
.

That says it all right there. What happens afterwards. Did what she do help or was her team just that bad? If her team was just that bad, then no amount of yelling would have helped. How about coaching decisions? I have seen plenty of times in tournaments and games where coaches have "lost" the game based on their decisions or indecisions, but then blame it on the players. But I view things through my coaches glasses. When I watched my DD's volleyball team the other day, I saw things I would have done differently as a coach. When my DD's were being coached by other TB coaches, I saw plenty of mistakes where the coach cost the team the game, only once did I hear the coach kind of admit blame for that ( He said "I guess I didn't manage that one too well, huh?") all the other times it was a speech something like "Ya'll need to go home and evaluate whether or not you want to play softball again. I don't know who that team was out there, but it sure wasn't MY team. I don't know what to say. Ya'll didn't look like ya'll wanted to play today. (several parents chime in "Yea") I mean you might want to go back to rec ball if you want to play like that." Nothing about how that was the best team in the area, how they beat almost everyone they played. Nothing about noticing how they played the game and trying to emulate what they were doing successfully. No, just a bunch of hot air about how bad they were and how poor their commitment level was. Amazingly this coach has never had a real "winning" season unless he only plays "C" tourneys. Which he does to keep parents happy. He treats the players like "C" level players by entering them in a lot of "C" level tourneys (while trying to convince prospective parents that they are A/B level talent), but berates them like they are "A" level talent.

When my teams lose I do point out why we lost (i.e errors, not hitting the ball, poor base running decisions, bad coaching decisions, etc) so that we can figure out how not to repeat those actions. If we play a great team, then I point out what made them great and ask the girls if they want to play like that. I then ask them "How can we be like them?" It gives them a chance for input into the coaches "circle speech" and it help them learn what I need them to learn and keeps them interested in doing it, since they think it is their idea. Heck I could talk to them until I am blue in the face and it might or might not sink in, but you let them think they came up with it and then in practice ask them "What was it you said we needed to work on after the game Sunday?". You will see a whole different attitude.