Timing of negative move

[dadofadirtlover]

Not sure why folks feel the need to feed the troll.

It's pretty basic. You time the pitcher to time the ball.

His pitching motion (from baseball) was the main question I had about this. Since BB pitchers are further away and all. But, the sages have spoken.....BB or SB.....doesn't matter. It's the same process regardless. Thanks all who responded to the question

 

[Eric F]

The "dancing with the pitcher" description has been around for ages.

No surprise. No matter who started it, it's the kind of cue that can resonate well with hitters of all ages.

 

[Cannonball]

First, despite the hijack of the thread, the OP's question was about the negative move. So, take a look at this video:

[video]http://zippy.gfycat.com/ClosedAlertAiredaleterrier.webm[/video]

I apologize that you have to clink on this link and then click on it each time you want to watch it again. However, you can see the "dance with the pitcher" in the video. Coach Up, HC is known nationally and internationally. I'll ask you to now tell us your resume and see your work. Certainly, you wouldn't be a no necked scum who attacks others without saying who you are. Would you?

Darrell Butler

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

His pitching motion (from baseball) was the main question I had about this. Since BB pitchers are further away and all. But, the sages have spoken.....BB or SB.....doesn't matter. It's the same process regardless. Thanks all who responded to the question

Bold above .... that is correct. Regardless of 'baseball' or 'softball', the batter times the ball from the pitcher's release onwards ... and prior to that they time the pitcher. What you'll see at the younger ages is that the pitching is so slow that batters can get into a habit of simply timing the pitch. I get hitters like this and they need to be introduced to proper timing mechanics.

 

[Shawn]

In general, should the negative move begin when the pitcher begins her windup or when the ball is released from her hand?

Ted Williams talks about starting it to early. He mentioned it in his book about giving advice to a hitter starting in the stance. He said starting to early wasn't the right way. Although, the negative move is the start of coiling, it should start while the pitcher has the ball.

Some hitters do it earlier. Someone using a tap back, will start earlier, Someone doing a knee lift will start earlier. Someone with an open stance will start earlier. I've even seen no striders do an early click back.

My guy says doing it to early affects the rhythm. I don't buy that because I've seen many hitters who start early with no problems. There are several styles like the ones I mentioned above that require a early start.

I have clips of no striders who click back early even without a stride. They click back as early as a toe tap, knee lift, open stance guys. Even though they don't have a stride, they are clicking back roughly at the same time as the toe tap, knee lift, open stance guys.

You even have no striders who start with an open stance who close up prior to release. That is just another way of starting early, even though they technically have no stride except what they do to close up prior to release.

So to answer your question, everyone technically starts before release IMO. How soon depends on the hitter or how close to release. Like I mentioned Ted Williams said it starts close to the same time as the start of the stride and he didn't want done to early. My guy says the same thing, he says around release. I think it should be done early and slow, how early depends on the hitter.

 

[Lenski]

The "dancing with the pitcher" description has been around for ages.

I agree. HC did not coin the phrase. I think CB stated that he heard the phrase from someone on this site and I know HC used the phrase all of the time. I'm sure HC got it from someone like Candrea, Enquist, Slaught, or anyone else that used the term in RVP. He loved him some RVP!

Your description that you "time the pitcher to time the ball" is spot-on.

 

[Cannonball]

I agree. HC did not coin the phrase. I think CB stated that he heard the phrase from someone on this site and I know HC used the phrase all of the time. I'm sure HC got it from someone like Candrea, Enquist, Slaught, or anyone else that used the term in RVP. He loved him some RVP!

Your description that you "time the pitcher to time the ball" is spot-on.

I agree that it doesn't matter where the phrase comes from, it is good advice. Anyone who has actually stood in the box against quality pitching knows this. However, like any cue, it needs to be explained. The point then is that a good negative not only gets the body ready to swing, but also gets the eyes ready to read the pitch.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Ted Williams talks about starting it to early. He mentioned it in his book about giving advice to a hitter starting in the stance. He said starting to early wasn't the right way. Although, the negative move is the start of coiling, it should start while the pitcher has the ball.

Some hitters do it earlier. Someone using a tap back, will start earlier, Someone doing a knee lift will start earlier. Someone with an open stance will start earlier. I've even seen no striders do an early click back.

My guy says doing it to early affects the rhythm. I don't buy that because I've seen many hitters who start early with no problems. There are several styles like the ones I mentioned above that require a early start.

I have clips of no striders who click back early even without a stride. They click back as early as a toe tap, knee lift, open stance guys. Even though they don't have a stride, they are clicking back roughly at the same time as the toe tap, knee lift, open stance guys.

You even have no striders who start with an open stance who close up prior to release. That is just another way of starting early, even though they technically have no stride except what they do to close up prior to release.

So to answer your question, everyone technically starts before release IMO. How soon depends on the hitter or how close to release. Like I mentioned Ted Williams said it starts close to the same time as the start of the stride and he didn't want done to early. My guy says the same thing, he says around release. I think it should be done early and slow, how early depends on the hitter.

I believe this is what you were referring to.

From Ted's book .....

Ken Harrelson of the Indians was doing that one year. He was concentrating so
much on cocking the hips that he was actually doing it at the stance. He had his
knee turned in and his hips cocked before the pitch, and without that pendulum
action he wasn’t generating any power. I made a mistake. I told him about it.