Throdown Trajectory

[jj5000]

Please help guys...in an effort to help my DD cut down on her rainbow throws to second and to help her find that sweet spot, so to speak, on throwdowns, I bought some 1 1/2 in pvc and I'm going to build a makeshift framework that will force her to keep the ball under the designated height (apparatus will be on pitchers mound on a nearby field we pract on), also above whatever decided height, i will continue the framework on both sides and across to hold a cheap piece of tarp, or old piece of tin, just something so that if she hits it it would have been a rainbow and way too high, but to get the ball to second on a good trajectory, she will have to stay under this thing...problem is I need to know what height to be at the top of the throwdown level, I want to give a little extra till she gets better. but what is the perfect heights above the pitchers head? I will then add to that height. she is 4'9" and plays 10u.

Thanks

 

[cshilt]

There won't be a perfect height for everyone as speed determines the arc required. As a general rule of thumb, I tell my catchers to aim for the pitcher's head, it is her job to duck.

 

[chazbz1]

I won't pretend to have all the answers. Her throwing trajectory at this point will be based on two things: Body developement and throwing mechanics. You can use the tool you described to give her an aiming point, but without adjustments to her throwing mechanics her odds of a successful throw are questionable. Also at this age girls' bodies develop at such different rates. I have one catcher who's legs from her knees down are adult sized while the rest of her is still child sized. I have another 10U that you would mistake for a 15-17 year old. If her body is still "child-sized " (if you will) You may be asking more from her than she is physically able to deliver at this stage of her life. Please keep this in mind when working with her. My daughter never listened to me anyway I had to get the catching coach out of New Hampshire (The New England Catching Camp) to work with her. I would suggest to be mindful of what she is capable of and concentrate on sound throwing mechanics that utilize her whole body, not just her arm. Best of luck to you!
-Chaz @ Advanced Catching Concepts

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Can I ask if she is using her legs properly? Is she using 1 step or 3?

As you already know, she is pretty small. If she is developing good mechanics, she will be alright.

Keep in mind that one bounce to second is OK.

Have you measured all of the girls to see how far they can throw?

 

[George R.]

Ditto here, cshilt. I teach my catchers to throw through the pitcher. If it gets there in a low one-hop, so much the better. It'll help keep the SS down and will help prevent injuries there, plus the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Also, teach your DD to throw from a crouch. It'll help her keep the throw lower.

 

[jj5000]

I think your right about them not listening to Dad after a certain age...problem is cant find a qualified catching coach in rural East Texas. I did buy New Hampshire Coach's dvd,..on a sidenote..after watching his dvd, I feel like my DD is the only one that does not catch on her toes, were doing it like he says...why do 8 out of 10 girls receive on their tippy toes.?

 

[jj5000]

Hey Amy, for the longest we tried the jump pivot and came out of that with one step, now we do a shuffle for lack of a better term, where the back foot replaces the front foot then step out with the front foot and throw...but def not 3 steps. I see lots of 10us doing that and they get it there but its not a fast delivery. Yeah my girl is small, she def cant get it there with just her arm like some kids, so thats why i really have to find that technique and trajectory that she have to get real good at. Our catchers both one hop them about 5-7 feet short each time. Whats odd is when she blocks one down the middle and jumps up to throw it down, those throws always get there and shes not really much furhter up when she throws..thats what makes me thing its a technique thing were doing wrong.

 

[jj5000]

i always forget to stress the crouch!!! thanks.

 

[jlambert]

i don't know about making props for catch practice because i want my dd to see where she needs to adjust... i do think doing a throw down over and over will help if small adjustments are coached. my dd has had a bad habit of throwing too high also and i found that if the mechanics are good and you stay positive ( that is real hard for dads to do) and comment on the throws in a positive way while she has the time to see what she is doing and make adjustments it does help quite a bit and you should see improvements in just a few sessions or maybe as few as one ,depending on well she the catcher makes those adjustments....

good luck,

 

[mtcoach]

JJ5000 - Here is a technique you can use to figure out how high to build you device.
First I have a comment:

1. She needs to get it to the short stop in the air slightly infront of 2nd. I've seen very few outs when the short stop takes it off the bounce in 10U. Unless the short stop is an absolute "stud muffin", most will flinch while trying to catch the ball off the bounce and then trying to make the tag.

2. Also depending on the playing field, you may not get a good bounce.

Here is what I did with my DD to get this. I took a 3 foot hula hoop and placed in side the baseline touching 2nd base. I then took a bucket and placed it inside the hula hoop with the opening facing towards home plate. This is now our target area (I placed the bucket in the hoop because it was hard to see the hoop laying on the ground).

Next you need a pitcher, a bat, a stop watch and a measuring tape.

1. Walk over to third base, stand on the corner of the base facing the pitcher's mound.
2. Hold the bat out at arms length with the bat vertical with one end on the pitching rubber.
3. Next turn bat horizontal towards hope plate
4. Have the pitcher walk out to the end of the bat from the rubber and mark the dirt.
5. Take the measuring tape and measure from the rubber to the mark in the dirt.
6. We can now determine height by using a reference from a fixed point (used this in the Army for determining LZs areas for helicopters)
7. Next have your catcher throw down to to second.
7a. Hold the bat up vertical again
7b. Have the pitcher throw a pitch
7c. At the time the ball enters the catcher's glove start the stop watch.
7d. As the catcher throws down watch the ball in reference to the bat.
7e. Stop the watch when the ball hits the target area.
7f. Take several timings.
8. The goal is to hit the target as quickly as possible. They may need to adjust trajectory a bit, but the ball needs to get there using proper quickness and throwing techniques.
9. Once you have determined the trajectory you can now hold the bat vertical again and have the pitcher walk out to the point you have marked off on the bat. use the tape measure again to measure from the rubber to the new line the pitch marks in the dirt. This is the approximate height you want to build your device.

A note of caution. You want to ensure your catcher is using proper throwing technique:

Dave Weaver does a great job explaining this and the following is from his web site: The New England Catching Camp

The footwork begins with the catcher beginning to rise up out of the crouch. Since they are slightly pitched forward this movement is up-and-out-toward second. The first foot to move is the right foot. It slides straight across towards the left foot. It is planted at a spot that would be ½ way between where it was and where the right foot is. DO NOT have the right foot replace the left. This is taught, but creates way too much momentum in the wrong direction. The goal here is to get turned so the left hip is pointed towards second as fast as possible.

The left foot follows quickly after the right. The target for the left foot is to land basically directly in front of the right foot. This will put the body in a straight alignment to 2 nd. We want this foot as close to the midline as possible. However we do not want this foot to cross the midline. Ideally this foot should touch the midline and be pointed at 2clock.

With the slight lean forward at the beginning and a strong push off the back leg we should avoid the problem of having all weight sitting on the back leg that results in throws totally dependent on arm strength and throws that often tend to go high and right.

Now the upper half of the body.

The exchange of the ball from glove to hand is a big time eater for many players.

Once the ball makes contact with the glove the first move the player makes is to turn the glove so the pocket is now facing them. They grab the ball and the throwing hand immediately begins its path back through the throwing slot. The back of the throwing hand leads the hand back. Do not lead with the elbow. The glove stays out in front of the player. It does not travel back toward the throwing shoulder after the ball is removed.

Many kids are taught to draw the glove back with the ball and remove the ball when the glove is back to the right ear. I believe that technique causes 2 problems that need to be eliminated.

By drawing the glove back to the ear you cause the front (left) shoulders to close off the front side. Some girls rotate that shoulder so far that their left shoulder is pointed towards the 1 st base dugout. Obviously this causes alignment problems that almost surely will result in a erratic throw.
The 2 nd problem this causes is the sideways movement that will be created by the glove side arm when the throw is executed. As we throw, the glove side arm should be driving down to the left side to help pull the right side forward to get the release point out in front. With the glove back so deep on the right side of the catchers face, the first moves that arm will make is a radical sideways motion just to get back on the left side of the body. Then, and only then can that left elbow bend and the left arm drive down where it belongs. All of this sideways torque is counter productive to a throw that’s should be headed toward 2 nd base.
From this point the left elbow moves up to a point where the elbow is bent at a 90-degree and the left elbow is pointed directly at 2 nd. I tell the catchers to use this elbow as their sight. The upper arm should be shoulder height. Level to the ground. Glove hand is allowed to bend down at wrist in relaxed position.

When the ball was removed it began its path back the throwing slot. The grip we are working for here is a 4-seam. With practice a player can come out of the glove with a 4-seam grip nearly ever time. The biggest issue from this point is that the entire throwing arm, shoulder, elbow, hand and ball NEVER go any lower then when they remove the ball from the glove. As soon as the arm starts back it should begin to track in an upward direction, the back of the hand leading the arm back. Our “target” is to end up with our right elbow shoulder high with the upper arm parallel to the ground. Yes, just like the glove side arm. The elbow should be at a 90-degree angle up. The ball should face the backstop, hand slightly on top of the ball. If the ball is not all the way facing the back stop the impending rotation of the hips and arm will almost always create a wrist roll. This will result in a throw that will act like a curve ball and tail away to the left.

At this point the actual throw begins with a simultaneous rotation of the right side. I tell my students that the pinky on your right hand starts the throw. As it rotates the elbow, shoulder, hip, knee and right foot all rotate towards 2 nd. At the same time the left elbow begins to drive the left arm down and back towards the left hip. This driving helps “pull” the right side through the throw and moves the release point out in front of the body. It is important to keep the head up and looking at target all the way through. Too often the head follows the left shoulder and drops the left side down. This will almost always result in a high to the left throw. After the release the right foot and leg are allowed to release from the ground to release the remaining energy that is stored on the right side.