Terrible Umpires, IMO, need to work the concessions.

[inde53546]

In scenario 2. The ball does remain live on a foul tip. Runner can steal. ASA Rule 7 4 E.

 

[inde53546]

We had good umpires on Saturday to the point a few parents even made the comments some of the better umpiring we have seen. Guess on Sunday was our payback. I don't blame them for our loss we let the other team capitalize on too many mistakes but I did have a quite a few oh its going to be one of those games moments.

Second batter of the game runner on 1st base, runner steals the first pitch and is out, next pitch is a ball. Umpire says 1-0 count I pause and say wait whats the count? Since it should be 1-1 he repeats 1-0 I said but there were 2 pitches thrown he goes no just that one, I said the pitch on the steal and he responds oh time confers with the other umpire comes back and goes nope 1-0 count, There was a pitch thrown but I don't remember what the pitch was so I can't award it. Well at least he was honest.

Next inning runner on 2nd base, foul tip for strike 3 my catcher keeps it in glove. Batter stands there and says I tipped the ball, Umpire immediately says yes but catcher caught it cleanly, is out in the mean time the runner from 2nd steals 3rd. My catcher knowing it was a foul tip doesn't throw. Next batter comes up and I say blue she's gotta go back to 2nd it was foul tip. He responds no she stole 3rd. I argue that even he said it was a foul tip and he confers for a little bit with the umpire and comes back and says no she can steal on that.

Last play that really got me 2 outs runners on 1st and 2nd our 3rd baseman fields the ball bobbles it a second than steps on 3rd. Our girls start to leave the field the umpire says that's only 2 outs she was safe no tag, my 3rd baseman looks at him and says its a force. He looks around the bases sees it a force and goes oh, um she's still safe. I ask for help he walks up and goes what do you want to appeal, I said can we ask for help on that play at 3rd, his response that's my opinion you can't appeal my opinion.

In scenario 2. The ball does remain live on a foul tip. Runner can steal. ASA Rule 7 4 E.

 

[MT 73]

I get what you're saying, but I have to say I'm thankful that the umpires for some of our high school games have expanded their zones.

We've had games where we've drawn 21, 19, 20, and 16 walks. And they all would've been much worse if not for expanded zones. We have 124 walks in 316 plate appearances through 11 games. And our girls understand that some of those strikes aren't really strikes, but they're being called for the sake of everybody's sanity.

Usually the expansion is with high, hittable strikes. Sometimes I've seen pitches called that were so far outside that they were unhittable. I'm not a huge fan of that because it takes away an at bat from a kid (One poor girl on our team is a bench player who doesn't bat much, and she's been the victim of this a couple times). But even then, I'm certainly not going to argue.

Edit: I should add that it's unfathomable that some of these schools can't find a girl who can at the very least lob the ball over the plate. Our first junior high game was tonight, and our pitcher who has been pitching for about two weeks (long story, but it's a new team and the coach was late getting it together, so they just started practicing a couple weeks ago) was throwing strikes. She wasn't throwing hard. No IR mechanics or anything. But she got enough balls over the plate that the game wasn't boring.

Key point to me is that it must be a hittable pitch.
There is a fine line between an expanded strike zone and taking the bat out of a kid's hands.
Which is why it is much more difficult for an umpire--at least one who is trying to be fair to both sides--to call a recreational as opposed to a high level Varsity or travel game.
We were taught not to go too high nor too low when "inventing" strikes, since the offensive coaches can easily spot these as opposed to the expanded corners.
I also agree that at times I get frustrated why any team cannot find someone who can at least lob the ball somewhere near the plate.
I coached for years and while I never had an A level pitcher I had girls who could throw strikes, which allowed my defense to get very, very good out of necessity.
Umpires later told me that they loved working our games due to the non stop action and high level of play.
As a side note out of my core 9 players seven of them went on to play D2 and D3 college softball.

 

[NCASAUmp]

So a pitchers ability is largely determined by her level of effort, not her athletic abilities. In order to be successful all she must do is try harder. Is that what you are going with?

Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that I call the zone the way I've been taught, not based on whether it's 10U vs 18U. If it's in the zone, it's in the zone. I don't change it, just because it's 10U. Plenty of 10U pitchers can find the zone.

 

[riseball]

Not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that I call the zone the way I've been taught, not based on whether it's 10U vs 18U. If it's in the zone, it's in the zone. I don't change it, just because it's 10U. Plenty of 10U pitchers can find the zone.

So help me understand your comment about the pitcher needing to "try harder". What does a pitchers level of effort have to do with the zone you are calling?

 

[Eric F]

So help me understand your comment about the pitcher needing to "try harder". What does a pitchers level of effort have to do with the zone you are calling?

My take on his comment...If a pitcher is struggling to throw pitches in the strike zone, it's recommended that they put in more practice time to improve their control.

Seems pretty reasonable to me. It's what I have always asked of all my players, at any age or competition level. If you struggle at part of the game, do the work to improve it.

 

[Eric F]

I have been trained by top level umpire organizations which have included college and pro ball clinicians and they disagree with you.
If you want to call the same zone for a travel 18U team and an 8U recreational pitcher then more power to you.

Well, certainly I learned something. The subjectivity of umpires is much greater than I previously thought.

 

[MT 73]

Well, certainly I learned something. The subjectivity of umpires is much greater than I previously thought.

Yes, many people do not understand that.
Plus the fact that sometimes we just screw up-- but that is something everyone knows.

 

[NCASAUmp]

So help me understand your comment about the pitcher needing to "try harder". What does a pitchers level of effort have to do with the zone you are calling?

I'm not understanding where your confusion's coming from. I'm not being flippant here when I ask this, because I genuinely want to know - what is it that you aren't clear on by my posts? I'll clear it up as best I can.

 

[Eric F]

Yes, many people do not understand that.

I don't see that as a good thing. In my experience, some of it has been downright ridiculous. Your revelations have also been somewhat disheartening.

Plus the fact that sometimes we just screw up-- but that is something everyone knows.

Mistakes I can deal with. I haven't forgotten that umpires are human...well, most of them, anyway. Intentional manipulation of the rules of the game is completely different.