Taking signs from coach?

[Hoover's Dad]

In a 10U ASA Championship game yesterday that we were playing in, had a call that I have never heard of. The opposing team was batting with 2 outs and a runner on 3b, there were 2 strikes on the batter.

The batter has stepped out of the box and is looking down 3B line to her coach, the coach goes through a series of signs, the home plate umpire calls a third strike on the batter, resulting in strike 3, inning over for them.

The umpire said that you have to have one foot in the box in order to take signs from a coach. The other team argued it, but to no avail.

So the rest of the game both teams were so paranoid about getting a strike called on them, that it sort of messed up the flow of game.

It got so bad one time that the opposing coach came out and was asking the HPU if he could appeal to the field ump that one of our batters took a sign from our 3B coach while out of the box.

We just instructed our girls to have a foot in the box, and we gave no hand signals unless we could see a foot in the box.


My question is do you have to have a foot in the batters box to take signs from a coach in ASA?

 

[coachtucc]

Some umpires tell me that..some don't say a thing about it! I just tell the girls to do so just in case

 

[MTR]

In a 10U ASA Championship game yesterday that we were playing in, had a call that I have never heard of. The opposing team was batting with 2 outs and a runner on 3b, there were 2 strikes on the batter.

The batter has stepped out of the box and is looking down 3B line to her coach, the coach goes through a series of signs, the home plate umpire calls a third strike on the batter, resulting in strike 3, inning over for them.

The umpire said that you have to have one foot in the box in order to take signs from a coach. The other team argued it, but to no avail.

The umpire is correct. ASA 7.3.D requires the batter to keep one foot in the box at all times with a handful of exceptions none of which apply based on the OP.

So the rest of the game both teams were so paranoid about getting a strike called on them, that it sort of messed up the flow of game.

It got so bad one time that the opposing coach came out and was asking the HPU if he could appeal to the field ump that one of our batters took a sign from our 3B coach while out of the box.

We just instructed our girls to have a foot in the box, and we gave no hand signals unless we could see a foot in the box.


My question is do you have to have a foot in the batters box to take signs from a coach in ASA?

As noted above, yes. And it is not a new rule. And for the baseball affecionados, it also applies to baseball (6.02.d.1)

The umpire is not required to call a strike. The umpire may issue a warning and there is no limit on the number of warning given. However, there is also no requirement for the umpire to provide the batter with a warning prior to calling a strike though most umpires do unless this has been a problem throughout the game.

 

[Comp]

ASA 7-3-D After entering the batters box, the batter must remain in the box with at least one foot between pitches and while taking signals and practice swings.
Exceptions: The batter may leave the box when.
1. When the ball is batted fair or foul.
2. On a swing, slap or check swing.
3. When forced out of the box by a pitch.
4. On a wild pitch or passed ball.
5. When a play is attempted
6. When time has been called
7. When the pitcher leaves the 8' pitching circle or the catcher leaves the catchers box.
8. On a 3 ball count pitch that is a strike that the batter thinks is a ball.
Effect: If the batter leaves the box and delays play, for any other reason the umpire may warn the batter or call a strike. Any number of warnings and called strikes can be made with each batter. No pitch has to be thrown and the ball is dead.

Typically umpires are fairly lax on the rule as long as the batters are staying very near the batters box and not delaying play. However, in championship play the UIC's push for enforcement of the rule and want the umpires to keep the batters in the box and play moving. It was within the umpires right by rule to call the strike, but a warning first probably would have been more appropriate, especially in a 10U game.

 

[shockcoach]

So I guess if the batter swung at the previous pitch, then you have a rules protest by exception #2. Otherwise the (hard-rear) umpire is within the rules.

 

[MTR]

So I guess if the batter swung at the previous pitch, then you have a rules protest by exception #2. Otherwise the (hard-rear) umpire is within the rules.

That would depend on whether they left the box in conjunction with the swing or after the fact and the umpire directed the batter into the box.

And it would only be a protest if the umpire clearly misinterpreted the rule.

This rule was instituted for more reasons than keeping the game moving. It also keeps a managable distance between the batter and basecoach.

 

[shockcoach]

I agree why the rule was put in, but exception #2 doesn't say the swing has to take you out of the box. The other reasons would lead one to think that should be the case. Either way, I teach my girls to take the signs with one foot in the box and not step completely out of the box while taking the signs. It should be easy for the coach of this team to now teach his batters the proper way to take signs, thanks to the umpire's call. They now know what the consequences can be.

 

[MTR]

I agree why the rule was put in, but exception #2 doesn't say the swing has to take you out of the box. The other reasons would lead one to think that should be the case.

That could be a valid argument. But not the only argument. Note that 3 of the 8 instances it does not say "when" something occured, but "on" the occurence of something. Like when you read a warning on a plastic bag to not put it over your head, there are some instances in rule books where a comment is made to circumvent an OOO from getting creative with applications of some rules. Sort of like on an infield fly, it applies if runners are on first and second or first, second and third. Well, duh!!! Apparently, somewhere along the way someone argued that the rule only applied when there were runners on first and second ONLY. Doesn't make any sense to me, but there it is in black and white.

As noted, most umpires will not call the strike unless it becomes an issue. Most players are aware of it and move into the box immediately upon their "warning". But it should also be noted, the umpire may direct the batter to the box anytime and call a strike if the batter is not prepared to bat after 10 seconds from being directed.

 

[Ken Krause]

Thing that bothers me the most about the OP is it was a 10U game. How about cutting young players a little slack, especially in the fall? Calling a strike in that situation seems severe, and depending on other circumstances could even result the umpire influencing the outcome of the game. If it was the host team that benefitted I'd sure be suspicious.

 

[MTR]

Thing that bothers me the most about the OP is it was a 10U game. How about cutting young players a little slack, especially in the fall? Calling a strike in that situation seems severe, and depending on other circumstances could even result the umpire influencing the outcome of the game. If it was the host team that benefitted I'd sure be suspicious.

Hang on, Bubba.

Speaking ASA, and that is the rule set to which we are referring here, there used to be special rules for 10U. And this is something that many forget, at the insistance of the teams the restrictions were removed because, and I was in the room when this change was argued, the 10U level of ball had reached a much higher level of skill and competition and the players shouldn't be held back by age-based special rules.

While I don't disagree that some allowance could have been made, this may very well fall in the "be careful of what you wish for" category. You cannot do it halfway. If you want the younger girls to play by the big girl rules, it needs to occur across the board. You cannot expect umpires to have an opt-out switch for some rules and not the others. Either it is instructional or competitive, cannot be both.

This is why I advise umpires that there is no disgrace in being assigned 10U/12U games when others are available. In championship play, I want an experienced, knowledgeable umpire who can handle the goofy stuff that happens at the lower age levels and is capable of tempering the manner in which the rules are enforced. Understand, I do not mean ignore the rules, but an experienced umpire will be able to recognize the manner in which the application needs to be addressed.