Taking signs from coach?

[Amy in AZ.]

Hang on, Bubba.

Hey, can I be Bubbette?

 

[MTR]

Hey, can I be Bubbette?

You can be anyone you want to be.

 

[Crabby_Bob]

Minor nit: The rule has nothing to do with when the batter may take signs (from anyone!), but when the batter may legally leave the batter's box.

 

[BretMan]

This isn't really a rule that an umpire should be a "Rule Nazi" about. The spirit and intent of the rule is to avoid unecessary game delays, not ring up cheap strikes for minor infractions.

I think that I've called this one time in the past five years (a span of probably 400 games behind the plate). If there isn't an issue with the game being unduly delayed, just saying something like, "Come on batter, let's go", gets them right back in the box. A few times I've said, "Batter, you have to keep one foot in the box", and that serves as my "warning".

If the delays are getting lengthy or frequent, the "penalty strike" is a tool you have in your back pocket to address it. But up until that point, just telling them to get in the box or issuing a warning will almost always put an end to it.

 

[Umpireernie]

Brett I agree, we need to remember the purpose of this rule. It is not to force players to be in a certain position to take a sign, it is to keep the game moving along.

Here in Alaska most of our ASA teams are made up of girls who just finished playing high school ball under NFHS rules and/or have come up thru the Little League softball organization; neither of which have the "one foot in the box" rule. When June rolls around and we start playing ASA rules I simply start verbalizing to the batter "foot in the box, batter" when they instinctively step back to get their sign. It doesn't take long before they are getting it.

I have never called a strike for this. I can't imagine calling it for strike three third out in a National Championship tourny game.

 

[BretMan]

The one time I've called this...

Batter steps out of the box and moves about 5-6 feet up the third base line to look at her base coach for a signal. I say, "Batter, you need to keep one foot in the box", while pointing at the batter's box.

The batter looks at me, doesn't budge, then turns back to look at the coach. He flashes a couple more signs, then stops and just stands there. Even though he appears to no longer be giving any signs, the batter just stands there staring at him.

Again, I say, "Batter, get in the box". She keeps staring at the coach, who is just standing there doing nothing.

One more time, I say, "Let's go, batter!"....and she doesn't move a muscle. She's standing there staring at the coach, who is standing there staring back at her. (Yes, this was all very strange.)

I call time and announce the penalty strike. (At that point though, I guess you could say the penalty strike was for not getting in the box within ten seconds of being directed to, rather than just stepping out of the box.) Her coach goes ballistic! "How can you call that!". "She's allowed to get her sign!". "You have to give her a warning!".

I did warn her...three times!

 

[Momo'sDad]

Either it is instructional or competitive, cannot be both.

Speaking as a new coach who is cutting his teeth in the trenches right now, I strongly disagree with this statement.

I do not know the ASA rule book the way many coaches do. I have had to become intimately familiar with the local and NorCal rules, but I am still learning the full book and chances are, by the time I do learn it, some things will have changed.

I am of the philosophy that management of a game is at the umpire's discretion. In our 10u fall league, for example, there is no infield fly rule. However, the umpire may call a batter out and return a runner to 1B if he feels the 2nd baseman dropped the ball on purpose in order to get the easy double play.

There is a NorCal rule which governs presentation of the ball. It's something that is not an ASA rule, so the umpires will just caution the pitchers (and coaches) without calling any penalties. We're still competing, but the umpires are helping to correct our players and helping us coaches by letting us know what to look out for.

We're only midway through, but we have had exceptional ASA umpires in every game we've played so far this fall. The only issue we've had all season was 1 BU who was obsessed with calling runners for leaving early, but although he was wrong on multiple occasions, since he called it both ways, I didn't complain.

Every area of the country is different, but my players have a ton of respect for the umpires and I think a lot of it has to do with the way they call the games.

 

[BretMan]

In our 10u fall league, for example, there is no infield fly rule. However, the umpire may call a batter out and return a runner to 1B if he feels the 2nd baseman dropped the ball on purpose in order to get the easy double play.

You're talking about two different rules- the infield fly rule and the intentionally dropped ball rule. They're mutually exclusive of one another. Eliminating the infield fly rule would not negate the intentionally dropped ball rule, so I would expect it to be enforced.

Speaking as an umpire that's been around the block, I would tend to agree that games are either instructional or competetive. If you're not enforcing rules, but instead just telling the players they're doing something wrong and letting it slide without penalty, I'd call that instructional.

But just because it's instructional doesn't mean that the main object of the game- to score more runs than your opponent- is tossed out the window. In that sense, you may still be "competing". You're just competing under looser guidelines that wouldn't be acceptable in, say, tournament or championship play.

So maybe saying a game is one or the other isn't descriptive enough, since the line between "instructional" and "competetive" can be blurred by league mandates. Perhaps the better description is "by the book" or "not by the book". What you're describing is a league that does not do things "by the book". Which is fine. A league may choose to enforce, modify, adopt or ignore any rule they see fit to suit it's participants.

I still think that you provide the best learning moments for the players by enforcing the rules as they are written. If you don't, are they really learning anything?

 

[MTR]

Speaking as a new coach who is cutting his teeth in the trenches right now, I strongly disagree with this statement.

I do not know the ASA rule book the way many coaches do. I have had to become intimately familiar with the local and NorCal rules, but I am still learning the full book and chances are, by the time I do learn it, some things will have changed.

I am of the philosophy that management of a game is at the umpire's discretion. In our 10u fall league, for example, there is no infield fly rule. However, the umpire may call a batter out and return a runner to 1B if he feels the 2nd baseman dropped the ball on purpose in order to get the easy double play.

There is a NorCal rule which governs presentation of the ball. It's something that is not an ASA rule, so the umpires will just caution the pitchers (and coaches) without calling any penalties. We're still competing, but the umpires are helping to correct our players and helping us coaches by letting us know what to look out for.

We're only midway through, but we have had exceptional ASA umpires in every game we've played so far this fall. The only issue we've had all season was 1 BU who was obsessed with calling runners for leaving early, but although he was wrong on multiple occasions, since he called it both ways, I didn't complain.

Every area of the country is different, but my players have a ton of respect for the umpires and I think a lot of it has to do with the way they call the games.

What you are referring to is local league rules. This is instructional, not competitive play.

 

[nanotech14]

Speaking as a new coach who is cutting his teeth in the trenches right now, I strongly disagree with this statement.

I do not know the ASA rule book the way many coaches do. I have had to become intimately familiar with the local and NorCal rules, but I am still learning the full book and chances are, by the time I do learn it, some things will have changed.

I am of the philosophy that management of a game is at the umpire's discretion. In our 10u fall league, for example, there is no infield fly rule. However, the umpire may call a batter out and return a runner to 1B if he feels the 2nd baseman dropped the ball on purpose in order to get the easy double play.

There is a NorCal rule which governs presentation of the ball. It's something that is not an ASA rule, so the umpires will just caution the pitchers (and coaches) without calling any penalties. We're still competing, but the umpires are helping to correct our players and helping us coaches by letting us know what to look out for.

We're only midway through, but we have had exceptional ASA umpires in every game we've played so far this fall. The only issue we've had all season was 1 BU who was obsessed with calling runners for leaving early, but although he was wrong on multiple occasions, since he called it both ways, I didn't complain.

Every area of the country is different, but my players have a ton of respect for the umpires and I think a lot of it has to do with the way they call the games.

Do you keep score? If the answer is yes,then it is competitive!!!!AS I DROP THE MICROPHONE ON THE FLOOR, AND WALK OFF THE STAGE !!!!