strikeouts or putting the ball in play--the mental appraoch

[CoachFP]

Couple of months ago I was watching the SF Giants play,, somebody. It was the bottom of the 8th, other team at bat. They had 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd, Giants ahead by 2 runs.

Giants decided to walk the next batter and load the bases. Next batter, 1st pitch, BALLAAMM! Grand slam. Giants ended up losing by 2.

If the pitcher could have pitched to the batter they walked, could he have struck him out? We'll never know. Just another case of a defensive strategy that ruined the game for another pitcher and his team.

I'm sure you will love this statement too; In my entrie pitching career, only ONCE was I ever asked to walk a batter. I refused and told the coach he would have to put another pitcher in to do that. He asked why and I said "If that's all the confidence you have in me, you can find another pitcher. You want this team to face me in tournaments?". He turned and walked his sorry defensive butt back to the dugout. I struck the batter out.

If you as a coach make decisions like that alot, you should really let your pitchers know ahead of time, they might decide they dont want to play for you.

Hal, where did you play? If you were playing against a Jeff Seip from Reading PA or a Carl Walker, you would have walked them. Because guess what, you weren't good enough to strike them out. If your pitcher is smart they should know who should be walked when the situation dictates it. Not a lack of confidence in them but an acknowledgement of the situation in the game.

I truly am amazed you can teach kids this, unless you are just yanking my chain. Strikeouts are great and sometimes you need them. But generally they are the result of making good pitches to a batter's weakness and nothing more. Going for them is just as dumb as trying to hit home runs. It works sometimes but is ill advised.

 

[sluggers]

Let me make sure I understand this...

Runner at 2B with two outs, and the #4 hitter is up, and the game is tied. The #4 hitter is Bustos. So, you pitch to her, right? After all, you think you can strike her out, so why not?

 

[halskinner]

Let me make sure I understand this...

Runner at 2B with two outs, and the #4 hitter is up, and the game is tied. The #4 hitter is Bustos. So, you pitch to her, right? After all, you think you can strike her out, so why not?

That's right. Doesnt matter who is in the batter's box, Bustos, Ripken, ruth, whoever.

You go after the batter with everything you've got, everything in your arsenal.

The difference with me (and most of the students I worked with) is I had MANY more weapons in my arsenal than the other pitchers and I was not afraid to use them. The same can be said for most of my students.

Speed is a weapon in the arsenal.

Pitch movement, another one.

Location, yet another one.

The different combinations of those three, yet another one.

Unfortunately, that is where most instructors leave off with their teaching and that is what most student pitchers are limited to. It is also the only things most defense oriented coaches understand about fast pitch softball pitching.

There is much more that a young pitcher can learn to make them much more effective.

 

[CoachFP]

Let me make sure I understand this...

Runner at 2B with two outs, and the #4 hitter is up, and the game is tied. The #4 hitter is Bustos. So, you pitch to her, right? After all, you think you can strike her out, so why not?

The answer to your question is the obvious one. You definitely walk her unless the number 5 hitter is better than she is. Don't recall that ever being the case. The way Hal talks, he never lost a game. How could he, he struck everyone out. But by his own admission was an A level pitcher, not an open level. How can this all be? lol

 

[JC heir]

Hal, with all due respect, you are going off the ddep end on this thing. the best weapon you have in that situation is to walk Bustos & face a weaker hitter especially since her run means nothing.... why would anyone want to strike out a stronger natter than they have to???? pride goeth before a fall...pride- not confidence

 

[halskinner]

Hal, with all due respect, you are going off the ddep end on this thing. the best weapon you have in that situation is to walk Bustos & face a weaker hitter especially since her run means nothing.... why would anyone want to strike out a stronger natter than they have to???? pride goeth before a fall...pride- not confidence

Hey JC.

CoachFuddPucket seems to be enfatuated with me, so I am leading him on here.

In 1979 (Possibly 1978, dont remember) a Modesto team, Dave Abel Insurance, was the ASA Mens Open A National Champs.

In 1979, my team Joaquin Construction, was the ASA A div Natl Champs.

Rainbow fields, in Modesto, opened in 1980. The inaguaral game was Dave Abel Insurance vs Joaquin Construction. I pitched for my team and we shut them out 5-0. However, the lights went out at the end of 5 innings and they could not get them back on but the umps declared it a full game. I think I had 13 or 14 strike outs.

I got my first offer to play Open A the very next week, from Dave Abel.

Shortly after that I quit Joaquin due to conflicting philosophies with the head coach.

I got 4 or 5 more offers to play open but turned them all down. Back then, as I understood it, if you pitched one pitch in Open div play, you were classified Open for the rest of your life and could not drop down ever.

Halfway into either the 1980 or 1981 season I was notified that I had been classified as an 'A-restricted' pitcher. No one had ever heard of that classification before so I made an appearance before the local rating committee to appeal it. When I got to that meeting, who was on the committee? My former head coach from Joaquin and most of the managers from all the 'A' teams in the area, most of which I had sent home from tournies.

I did not win the appeal and for that 1/3 of the season I was the only player in the US c;lassified as 'A-restricted', at least that was what I was told.

The next meeting of the rating committee, the word had spread and DOZENS of players of ALL positions were classified the same thing. Everyone they felt was too good was classified that to try and force them up to Open div.

MANY of those players simply dropped out of the sport because they were sick of the politics that were taking over.

As a player rated as A-restricted, you could not play on any team that had an Open-A rated player on the roster. If you did, you were immediately rated Open and would be that forever.

Most of the teams in my part of California had a few players that HAD played Open ball and were rated that. After a couple years of playing here and there on teams I COULD play for, I dropped out too because of the politics.

Never feared any batter, did not show any batter any respect at all, never played Open div.

In 1986 I was in a multiple roll over accident on the freeway and got torn enough I could not compete anymore.

 

[CoachFP]

Hal, nice resume. I have never heard of Open A. There is/was no such thing. I am sure you had your successes pitching a softball. You were however an A pitcher and there is a big difference between A pitchers and Open pitchers. Guys who I played with such as Ty Stofflet, Michael White and Dave Scott were all Open pitchers who have won the Open ASA nationals. But all of this means nothing. Michael White was not a strikeout pitcher and never talked strikeouts, but pitched a perfect game in the ISF World Championship. Jimmy Moore was a great pitcher and didn't strike out a lot of people. These are people beyond your pay grade in softball. So for you to talk about going out there and thinking and trying to strike out every hitter just shows that you never really learned what it took to be one of the best.

 

[halskinner]

It was called A-Open, Open-A and also referred to as Major Division in my area. They were all the same thing; the one division of play that was above A division.

Let’s see, if we are going to drop names all day, how about D’Arcy, Balswick, Topp and Van Nuenhuesen, all very successful Open division pitchers that were playing in A division tournies. Played against D’ Arcy and Balswick. I believe D’Arcy is in the ASA Hall of Fame. Darrell Topp and Bud Van Nuenhuesen were the other two pitchers on our National Championship team.

A handful of the other players on our championship team continued to the major division, made the national team and went on to compete and win the Pan Am Games years ago.

Saw the Men’s National Team put on some exhibition games in Stockton a few years back. Saw a few of the guys from my team and one I played against at almost every tourney. Mitch Munthe and Chuck Hamilton were the assistant coaches, they were on my team back then.. Pete Turner Jr. was the head coach. Pete pitched against us, played for a team called Professional Chevron back then. Hadnt seen tham since around 81, great guys.

I see you are from Maryland. Maybe you remember one of the outfielders on my Championship team, Jimmy Bryan? I believe Jimmy played a few years for the Orioles outfield.

We can drop names all day but what’s the use.

 

[CoachFP]

I never heard of Jimmy Bryan. Maybe he was in the minor league organization. I wasn't dropping names for the sake of dropping names, but just telling you about top notch pitchers that I know pretty well who never talked about trying for strikeouts or that it was necessarily part of their approach. Seems to me, a guy like Stofflet, who is arguably the best American pitcher ever, and who could strikeout most anyone in his heyday, never talked about it.

 

[Ken Krause]

Ok guys it's getting a little too personal. There is a difference of opinion, which is fine. But this is starting to sound like one of the hitting discussions. No name calling, no more resume challenging. Just stick to the subject.