strikeouts or putting the ball in play--the mental appraoch

[CoachFP]

Hal, I was kind of baiting you a little bit because I thought you may backtrack on your previous statements. But you are serious. Confidence is thinking you are able to get a batter out. Saying you are going to strike out everyone is not confidence it is stupid. Who really gets 21 strikeouts? Must have been a relatively bad team. So you played men's fastpitch and so did I. I have never talked to a top flight pitcher that was concerned about strikeouts. They like them. What they generally discuss is how to get a hitter out. I am still amazed that you support that. Do you tell hitters to try to hit a home run every time up? Seems to me very similar.

Am I missing something here other posters or do you agree with Hal?

 

[halskinner]

Hal, I was kind of baiting you a little bit because I thought you may backtrack on your previous statements. But you are serious. Confidence is thinking you are able to get a batter out. Saying you are going to strike out everyone is not confidence it is stupid. Who really gets 21 strikeouts? Must have been a relatively bad team. So you played men's fastpitch and so did I. I have never talked to a top flight pitcher that was concerned about strikeouts. They like them. What they generally discuss is how to get a hitter out. I am still amazed that you support that. Do you tell hitters to try to hit a home run every time up? Seems to me very similar.

Am I missing something here other posters or do you agree with Hal?

"Confidence is thinking you are able to get a batter out " I am of a different opinion; "Confidence is knowing you CAN strike the batter out"
"Saying you are going to strike out everyone is not confidence it is stupid. Who really gets 21 strikeouts? " Not many. Certainly not pitchers that average 5 a game and do not win most of their games.

"Do you tell hitters to try to hit a home run every time up? Seems to me very similar." I dont tell hitters anything, I am not a hitting instructor. In fact, unless there was no DH rule, I seldom got to hit on the teams I played for.

"Am I missing something here posters or do you agree with Hal?" Apperently, so I will reiterate. Take your poll if that is what you are intending to do. But bare in mind I dont give a flyin monkeys behind what anyone thinks of my pitching philosophy, tactics I used and taught, or anything to do with pitching.

Why do you think they refer to my book as 'The hard-core pitching manual'.?

 

[CoachFP]

Well one thing for sure, you are passionate. I am not going to continue debating this but you are the first person I have ever heard have this opinion. There are hitters that pitchers are not going to strike out. Trying for that strikeout does not seem to make sense to me. You're not telling me you have high school pitchers that throw 54 mph with no movement and you are trying to convince them they can strike anybody out? Having a strikeout mentality is not something a good pitcher should have.

 

[Coach-n-Dad]

You're not telling me you have high school pitchers that throw 54 mph with no movement and you are trying to convince them they can strike anybody out?

Mentality and reality are 2 different things here. A Varsity pitcher throwing 54 with no movement can "think" she is the strike out queen as much as she wants, but the reality is if there is no movement it aint happening.

 

[jimginas]

Hal, I do understand you wanting the pitcher to have an attitude and confidence that never allows her to believe anything but complete dominance.

I can definitely buy into her having that level of confidence, though I haven't heard enough rationale to change my mind about calling pitches to get a hitter to put a ball in place that is preferable to the defense (again, bases loaded and we pitch something down to get a groundball and get the lead runner at home, hopefully 4, then 1; or 1st & 2nd situation and we want a groundball to 3B; or bunting situation and high pitch to get the pop-out to a corner.)
** There are some batters that I'll tell my pitcher in the dugout before we go back out on defense that we aren't wasting pitches and we're going to get the out within 3 pitches. and there are situations we get into, where I'll draw a plan at the mound to relax the defense and give the pitcher and defense confidence how we are getting out of the situation. something like, "ok, runners at 2nd & 3rd - 1 out, batter is over agressive, and we're going to start off w/ a changeup, then drop ball in, then low-in change up, if she hits it, we hold the runner at 3B and get the out at 1, next batter is a good batter, so we are playing for a weak grounder to 2B side, 2B plays deep/SS tighter to 2B" something that tells them we WILL get the outs and HOW we are going to get them........


10 years calling pitches to create situations does work. (FYI - I also coached baseball 7 years prior to my daughter starting softball). - bottom line is calling pitches to get a preferred out is realistic, calling pitches to get a strikeout ONLY may not put the defense in the best position to keep runners from moving.

 

[CoachFP]

I tell my pitchers to pitch to the batter's weaknesses and to our defensive strengths. Each hitter is different. To put this crazy strikeout mentality in a pitcher's head is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard regarding pitching fastpitch softball.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I just tell my pitchers to "strike them out."

Jeez, I guess I have hung around U of Az. too much, but they aren't pitching to put the ball in play. I can't even imagine why they would do that and risk errors.

Of course, if your pitchers have no speed at all, you need to hope that your defense will bail you out, but I find that doesn't work too well.

Without speed and K's, the game becomes slow pitch.

 

[halskinner]

I just tell my pitchers to "strike them out."

Jeez, I guess I have hung around U of Az. too much, but they aren't pitching to put the ball in play. I can't even imagine why they would do that and risk errors.

Of course, if your pitchers have no speed at all, you need to hope that your defense will bail you out, but I find that doesn't work too well.

Without speed and K's, the game becomes slow pitch.

Hey Amy. You are talking to defense oriented coaches.

 

[CoachFP]

I just tell my pitchers to "strike them out."

Jeez, I guess I have hung around U of Az. too much, but they aren't pitching to put the ball in play. I can't even imagine why they would do that and risk errors.

Of course, if your pitchers have no speed at all, you need to hope that your defense will bail you out, but I find that doesn't work too well.

Without speed and K's, the game becomes slow pitch.

Look at the 2009 Arizona U. statistics: http://www.arizonawildcats.com/sports/w-softbl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html

So Amy, Arizona pitchers threw 396 innings. Which means there were 1,188 batters faced who made outs. Then there were 432 hits (which were another 432 batters) and there were 101 walks. So all told there were 1,721 at bats (not including those who got on on errors) and there were 322 strikeouts by Arizona pitchers. Therefore 18% of the batters faced struck out.

Don't you and Hal Skinner get it? You both live in some fantasy world. 82% of the batters Arizona pitchers faced did not strike out. But you want their pitchers, and of course your pitchers, to "try" for strikeouts. I am glad that you and he aren't teaching my daughter how to pitch.

 

[halskinner]

Look at the 2009 Arizona U. statistics: http://www.arizonawildcats.com/sports/w-softbl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html

So Amy, Arizona pitchers threw 396 innings. Which means there were 1,188 batters faced who made outs. Then there were 432 hits (which were another 432 batters) and there were 101 walks. So all told there were 1,721 at bats (not including those who got on on errors) and there were 322 strikeouts by Arizona pitchers. Therefore 18% of the batters faced struck out.

Don't you and Hal Skinner get it? You both live in some fantasy world. 82% of the batters Arizona pitchers faced did not strike out. But you want their pitchers, and of course your pitchers, to "try" for strikeouts. I am glad that you and he aren't teaching my daughter how to pitch.

Couple of months ago I was watching the SF Giants play,, somebody. It was the bottom of the 8th, other team at bat. They had 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd, Giants ahead by 2 runs.

Giants decided to walk the next batter and load the bases. Next batter, 1st pitch, BALLAAMM! Grand slam. Giants ended up losing by 2.

If the pitcher could have pitched to the batter they walked, could he have struck him out? We'll never know. Just another case of a defensive strategy that ruined the game for another pitcher and his team.

I'm sure you will love this statement too; In my entrie pitching career, only ONCE was I ever asked to walk a batter. I refused and told the coach he would have to put another pitcher in to do that. He asked why and I said "If that's all the confidence you have in me, you can find another pitcher. You want this team to face me in tournaments?". He turned and walked his sorry defensive butt back to the dugout. I struck the batter out.

If you as a coach make decisions like that alot, you should really let your pitchers know ahead of time, they might decide they dont want to play for you.

__________________________________________________________

Does walking a batter turn out to be a smart move? Yes it does, sometimes.

Does walking a batter turn out to be a stupid move? Yes it does, the REST of the time.

Is asking a pitcher to walk a batter a cold slap in the face to the pitcher?? Yes, EVERY time, whether the pitcher lets on or not.