strikeouts or putting the ball in play--the mental appraoch

[jimginas]

Batsics1.... I do like your 4 pitch concept, trying to manipulate the batter using teh previous pitch and not over-complicating the thought process........ my issue is I am very analytical..... always trying to plan out what the result should be and if it isn't, what I should have done differently.

I also understand and AGREE with your thought, same as Hal's for wanting your pitcher to have the utmost confidence in herslf to get a K on any batter.
** I'm probably more cautious with some batters then I need to be and don't tend to challenge them as much as I try and get them to go after pitches that I feel she can't extend her arms on or turn on. I like low-IN, High-in, low-away, and only waist-high pitches I like are are inside change ups........ I like low and away changeups, but try to be careful not to be predictable....
----

CoachFP suggests similar as you.. not to over-complicate it (over-thinking).... He's probably right, thus it would save from wasting some pitches.......


for clarity, when I say a plan for 2-3 pitches, thats not EVERY batter, generally thats when we are in the dugout before an inning or at the mound when I need to break momentum or give us calm confidence for how we get out of an inning. Sometimes we do get the results per pitch we want, at least for 1-2, MAYBE 3 pitches, sometimes she misses her spot or the batter reacts differently and we adjust. I think of it as a Chess match.. think ahead 1-2 pitches and plays... if this happens, we'll do this, if that happens, we'll do that.....

............ There are times when wasting pitches has a purpose........ we may be working on a pitch that the pitcher is not consistant with yet, another situation may be if the situation is right, I may throw something off the plate in location different then where I want to later to that same batter-similar count (when I don't NEED the pitch for an out on THAT pitch). later in the game with that batter, if a similar situation comes up again, I can throw something different that the other team / batter is not expecting.... (method to avoid tendancies and to not be predictable, but that does cause wasted pitches and I am ok with that because its setting up a situation later.
again, maybe its overthinking and as you and CoachFP suggest - don't over-complicate it

I appreciate the discussion.... I'll have to get a cold beer next time! (these are discussions I like over beer and BBQ!)

 

[CoachFP]

I see some very good thoughts here. But if you look at all of the great pitchers, what do they do? They establish one pitch that is their bread and butter. With Osterman it is the drop. You should not be trying to "fool" the hitter on "every" pitch. Instead you must make sure the hitter knows that you have that pitch that you rely on and get them thinking about it. As a pitcher you need to be able to make that pitch in crunch time. With that all being said when you have established that pitch that's when you can throw the hitter off by doing other things. Like I said earlier, the simpler the better. When the batter knows a drop is coming and you throw it in the dirt, you'd be surprised how many swings go after that pitch.

 

[sluggers]

My DD threw a drop and it was short. It hit the front of the plate, and came straight up to about belt high. The batter politely hit it out of the park.

 

[CoachFP]

My DD threw a drop and it was short. It hit the front of the plate, and came straight up to about belt high. The batter politely hit it out of the park.

Is this a joke?

 

[sluggers]

No, it isn't. You pitch enough games, you are going to see some crazy stuff.

 

[halskinner]

No, it isn't.

OK. This just brought back a memory for me.

A pitcher playing against my team tried to throw a pitch and it, simply put, slipped out of his grip just short of where he wanted to release it. It went out about 10 or 12 feet, hit the ground and just kind of rolled towards the plate.

As it neared the plate (with everyone chuckling out loud) our batter took a TREMENDOUS swing at it about chest high. About three seconds later the PU yelled "Strike two". Our batter went ballistic and the rest of us about fell of the bench.

Our batter tried to talk his way out of it saying it was obviously a ball and everybody knew he only swung as a joke.

Joke was on him that day.

You probably had to be there to appreciate how funny it was but we were all wiping tears away from laughing so hard. AND DO YOU THINK WE EVER LET HIM FORGET THAT DAY?? HECK NO!! He heard about it every time he stepped into the batters box for the rest of the season..

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I teach the girls a drill where I pitch tennis balls, that bounce out in front of them. Maybe the batter had been doing that drill.

 

[batsics1]

I recently saw a pitcher throw a ball halfway to second base, lost it at the top of the circle. Ump called it a dead ball.

 

[batsics1]

CoachFP

As great as Osterman’s drop ball is, without the curve it would be significantly less effective. The reason she is so effective is because both pitches can occupy the same space for the majority of the balls flight and move to different locations late. Her low drop travels in a similar trajectory as the curve in the zone; a drop off the outside follows a similar path as a curve on the outside corner; a drop at the knees travels a similar path as a high curve, etc. Add a little, take a little off both pitches and they move to a different location. The drop may be her bread and butter, and she may throw that more than the curve but she has to establish that she can throw both for balls and strikes at will and that they travel in a similar trajectory in order to be supremely effective – essentially trying to fool the batter on every pitch. She also throws a rise as a freeze pitch. She doesn’t have to use it very often and it doesn’t have to be for a strike, but it has to travel on a different path than the bread and butter pitches. Its purpose is to throw the batters concentration off reading the bread and butter.

A three pitch combo in which two pitches are featured, one probably more than the other is the key to effectiveness over multiple innings, IMO. A drop, rise, change combo becomes deadly when the drop low occupies the same space as the rise strike and the rise high occupies the same space as the drop strike. The change becomes extremely nasty not just because of the speed difference, but because of the speed difference it can look exactly like one or both of the other pitches and move to an entirely different location. The ratio may typically be 4 drops to 2 rises to 1 change, as an example, such that one can identify the drop as the bread and butter pitch, but without the other two pitches good hitters will eventually read the flight path of the main pitch.

Fool the batter on every pitch by making them travel in a similar trajectory for the majority of the flight path and make them move to different locations due to differences in spin and speed.

As an aside, I think this concept seems to be missing from a lot of instruction. Too many pitchers throw a curve that may break a foot off the plate but looks like a curve out of the hand or have 5 pitches that go in 5 directions out of the hand. In the end, it is not about how fast a pitcher is, or how good one of her pitches is, or how many pitches she throws. It is about how deceptive she is with her arsenal. That, to me, is why Cat is so effective even though she throws on the slow side of elite pitchers and uses the drop as her primary weapon. And why many who throw faster and/or use more pitches aren’t.

 

[CoachFP]

CoachFP

As great as Osterman’s drop ball is, without the curve it would be significantly less effective. The reason she is so effective is because both pitches can occupy the same space for the majority of the balls flight and move to different locations late. Her low drop travels in a similar trajectory as the curve in the zone; a drop off the outside follows a similar path as a curve on the outside corner; a drop at the knees travels a similar path as a high curve, etc. Add a little, take a little off both pitches and they move to a different location. The drop may be her bread and butter, and she may throw that more than the curve but she has to establish that she can throw both for balls and strikes at will and that they travel in a similar trajectory in order to be supremely effective – essentially trying to fool the batter on every pitch. She also throws a rise as a freeze pitch. She doesn’t have to use it very often and it doesn’t have to be for a strike, but it has to travel on a different path than the bread and butter pitches. Its purpose is to throw the batters concentration off reading the bread and butter.

A three pitch combo in which two pitches are featured, one probably more than the other is the key to effectiveness over multiple innings, IMO. A drop, rise, change combo becomes deadly when the drop low occupies the same space as the rise strike and the rise high occupies the same space as the drop strike. The change becomes extremely nasty not just because of the speed difference, but because of the speed difference it can look exactly like one or both of the other pitches and move to an entirely different location. The ratio may typically be 4 drops to 2 rises to 1 change, as an example, such that one can identify the drop as the bread and butter pitch, but without the other two pitches good hitters will eventually read the flight path of the main pitch.

Fool the batter on every pitch by making them travel in a similar trajectory for the majority of the flight path and make them move to different locations due to differences in spin and speed.

As an aside, I think this concept seems to be missing from a lot of instruction. Too many pitchers throw a curve that may break a foot off the plate but looks like a curve out of the hand or have 5 pitches that go in 5 directions out of the hand. In the end, it is not about how fast a pitcher is, or how good one of her pitches is, or how many pitches she throws. It is about how deceptive she is with her arsenal. That, to me, is why Cat is so effective even though she throws on the slow side of elite pitchers and uses the drop as her primary weapon. And why many who throw faster and/or use more pitches aren’t.

Well said. But you must admit, the drop is the pitch that sets the tone. If she had to throw one pitch to end a game or put away a batter, she'd choose that one. That was my point. Her dominance with the one pitch comes first then the curve which seals that dominance is there to keep the batter honest. Don't see her throwing a changeup too often.