Stride Vs No Stride

[Chris O'Leary]

I mean no dis respect when I say I have never and will never use frame counts as I deal with kids not MLB players and that includes CB! I have parents some are single parents who have no clue what a frame is or what it represents as to time. Could you give me a reference as to what that means from the K position to the window of release so I could give a hitter a clue as to what a frame actually is? What a frame actually means is a major factor in helping a hitter understand what it means to helping them understand timing and rhythm is

I live in a real world of kids who want to take it to the next level... help me out coach!

As Mark said, frame counts give us an objective sense of how quick a hitter's swing is and thus how good it is. Frame counts aren't perfect, because there is more to life than quickness, but no hitter, regardless of their eye or their approach, is going to be able to hit good pitching with a swing that is too long and slow. In baseball, frames counts start to become an issue in 7th grade or so as kids start to be able to bring it. I'm not sure about FB, but it's probably similar. By HS, swing quickness is very important.

A good swing is 5, 30 frame per second frames (10, 60 frame per second frames) from the start of the swing through the point of contact.

Frame counts are judged based on what the hitter is doing, not what the pitcher is doing. In most cases, you start counting when the front heel plants since in most cases (unless the pitcher reads an off-speed pitch) the bat head also starts moving in that frame.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

For those of you who are unfamiliar with frame counting, let me explain it using this clip of Megan Bush.

This clip is 20 Frames Per Second (not the more typical 30 FPS), so a good number would be 3.5-4 frames.*

I would count Frame 16 as Frame 1 because while her front heel hasn't yet planted, her bat is moving (due in part to how much she reverse-rotates her shoulders). Given that the POC is in Frame 19, that makes this a 4 frame swing at 20FPS or a 5 to 5.5 frame swing at 30FPS, which is what you would expect from a D-1 FPS player.

* When counting frames, you HAVE to know the frame rate to get a good count.

 

[Hitter]

Chris

Thank you Howard

 

[tom.guerry]

frame count is useless for analysis of MLB hitters. they virtually all have an MLB pattern or they woiuld not have made it to the show.

The amazing thing about MLB hitting is how similar all swings are, not how different they are.

with this pattern the swing is quick enough that the large error in determining when a swing starts and the variability of the situation with respect to pitch speed/location/adjustment make it meaningless.

a more important consideration/observation is whether or not the hitter uses the MLB pattern or not.

 

[ifubuildit]

I see way too many kids at all levels take this long stride,plant the foot, and be so far off balance when they swing that they will fall across the plate or fall on their keister at finish. I can and have walked over to them in the past and pushed them over with a single finger. As an instructor it is incumbent on me to teach them how to CONTROL the stride. One of the cues I have started using with my hitters here recently is one I learned from Bill Hillhouse as it relates to pitching. While observing Bill giving a lesson he said to one of his students "As you stride out speed up" This "Cue" or thought was Bills way of saying control your motion but accelerate as you start moving forward to foot plant.

I started using this recently in relationship to striding out during hitting and it has had a positive impact in helping my students. They seem to be in better control and hit the ball with more force. Instead of pushing with the back leg so much they tend to "Glide" out towards the ball better.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

frame count is useless for analysis of MLB hitters. they virtually all have an MLB pattern or they woiuld not have made it to the show.

The amazing thing about MLB hitting is how similar all swings are, not how different they are.

with this pattern the swing is quick enough that the large error in determining when a swing starts and the variability of the situation with respect to pitch speed/location/adjustment make it meaningless.

a more important consideration/observation is whether or not the hitter uses the MLB pattern or not.

It's not totally useless when looking at big leaguers, in large part because it makes the point that quickness isn't enough.

In other words, swing quickness, as evidenced by five frame swing, is a necessary but not sufficient condition for success at the major league baseball and D-1 softball level.

 

[Hitter]

I see way too many kids at all levels take this long stride,plant the foot, and be so far off balance when they swing that they will fall across the plate or fall on their keister at finish. I can and have walked over to them in the past and pushed them over with a single finger. As an instructor it is incumbent on me to teach them how to CONTROL the stride. One of the cues I have started using with my hitters here recently is one I learned from Bill Hillhouse as it relates to pitching. While observing Bill giving a lesson he said to one of his students "As you stride out speed up" This "Cue" or thought was Bills way of saying control your motion but accelerate as you start moving forward to foot plant.

I started using this recently in relationship to striding out during hitting and it has had a positive impact in helping my students. They seem to be in better control and hit the ball with more force. Instead of pushing with the back leg so much they tend to "Glide" out towards the ball better.

Dana

As you know we teach a very simple knee cock move to put the weight inside the back leg and simply pick up the lead foot and keep it close to the ground and land on the inside edge of the foot or what is known as eversion. We try to plant a concept in their mind slow to load soft to step on a flexed front knee and use the half full water bottle to show them and get them to feel it.

I personally could care less about the MLB swing pattern as I try to teach around the NPF swing pattern for my boys and girls! Dana I know that just made you laugh and I could hear it!

Thanks Howard

 

[Shawn]

This is so true. Stride has more negatives than it does positves.

Early flow or bleed of stored energy.
Head movement
also leads to unconnection on offspeed pitches.

If that was true what you said, then this guy must have been a terrible hitter.

I mean how can someone hit with head movement according to your statement, and how could you stride without being fooled?

Are you saying since Ryan Howard used mainly a no stride all year he wasn't fooled on pitches any less? Or are you saying hitting like that little guy Span on the Twins allows you to put the ball in play?

Even in the last 20 years, how many hitters have put together a string of years using strictly no-stride and considered to be very good hitters? No stride is nothing new, I've seen past greats taking batting practice basically hitting no-stride. And there has been no=stride hitters throughout the time of baseball. How many are actually remembered? How many great hitters can you list that used a stride? (so many we would have to list most if not all of the HOF members).

Are you saying that for a hitter with limited ability and skill that the no-stride is better?

 

[Shawn]

Dane,

I remember Bill saying this in his pitching video as well, that the second half is fasting then the beginning. I could agree with what your saying, if a hitter was to take a pitch and they knew early it was a ball everything would seem even softer. Good hitters still have slow feet, or a nice rhythm, although when they let it go it seem a little quickier at a certain point.

 

[Shawn]

Dane,

I remember Bill saying this in his pitching video as well, that the second half is fasting then the beginning. I could agree with what your saying, if a hitter was to take a pitch and they knew early it was a ball everything would seem even softer. Good hitters still have slow feet, or a nice rhythm, although when they let it go it seem a little quickier at a certain point.

Dana, not Dane, like it 1920 (is that how Dane was spelled back then).

Another useless piece of advice always floating around every game, be more aggressive. And usually the only meaning the hitter understands from the statement and the lame demonstrations is to swing harder, more effort. Which doesn't really address why the hitter isn't aggressive in the first place.