STOP the shaming...

[MNDad]

Kids are literally dying from head shots in softball. Dying. I really don’t understand why this is so controversial.

These comments are why mask debates are so ridiculous. "Kids are dying", "The ball travels over 100 mph", "Pitchers WILL get hit in face without a mask, it's just a matter of time". Plenty of good reasons to wear a mask, but these are all nonsense. Lets stick to facts so parents can make informed decisions.

 

[BT3100]

These comments are why mask debates are so ridiculous. "Kids are dying", "The ball travels over 100 mph", "Pitchers WILL get hit in face without a mask, it's just a matter of time". Plenty of good reasons to wear a mask, but these are all nonsense. Lets stick to facts so parents can make informed decisions.

The local rec team that I started this thread about is now posting pics each day with a kids who were hit in the face. Disgraceful.. The organization is actually a pretty good org but they are going too far.

 

[riseball]

Never let a good crisis go to waste. And never, ever let facts get in the way of your emotions.

 

[MNDad]

DD’s teammate was hit in the head a couple of years ago and now wears a mask. If we’re going to mandate them this is the way to go. There’s a thick headband that goes on first and the mask then fits above. It offers far more protection and is actually effective at reducing concussion risk. The headband fits tightly to the skull which limits the mask from shifting or not fitting properly.

Of course it would be a harder sell. The key features of facemasks are comfort and appearance. These are more intrusive, bulkier, and not as attractive. Their safer, but that’s not really at the forefront of the mask debate. It’s more about having rules in place to pass the buck. If it’s left up to parents and players to decide people would have to actually parent.

 

[BT3100]

DD’s teammate was hit in the head a couple of years ago and now wears a mask. If we’re going to mandate them this is the way to go. There’s a thick headband that goes on first and the mask then fits above. It offers far more protection and is actually effective at reducing concussion risk. The headband fits tightly to the skull which limits the mask from shifting or not fitting properly.

Of course it would be a harder sell. The key features of facemasks are comfort and appearance. These are more intrusive, bulkier, and not as attractive. Their safer, but that’s not really at the forefront of the mask debate. It’s more about having rules in place to pass the buck. If it’s left up to parents and players to decide people would have to actually parent.


View attachment 12738

No offense and thanks for posting that pic! At that point I think just wearing a batters helmet would be just as reasonable.

 

[4 girl's dad]

Which is exactly how they roll in the mens game. We are talking about the highest levels of the game. Not the local rec-league All-Stars.

I was referring NPF and NCAA WCWS teams.

 

[Tatonka]

It does hinder visibility. It does hinder mobility. Not something that would matter at the lower levels, but as skills advance it is an undeniable fact. To be clear, I am neither for or against and really could care less what parents and players decide.

Thanks for the response Rise. I'm not buying it yet though just because you state here that it is an "undeniable fact". Visibility? Perhaps in some miniscule way that most players will never rely on in an actual game scenario. If it was really causing a problem where fielders can not see the ball repeatedly (or the runners or other fielders?) that would be a deal breaker for everyone wouldn't it? Mobility? I call BS on that one and would love to see the studies and/or tests that were done to so conclusively arrive at your position on this. I understand that this issue is a hot button for you as it seems like every time someone brings it up you jump into the debate. This time you describe mask proponents actions as "evangelizing and whining" and suggest they should do something to develop their kids hitting and fielding skills. When you say "not noticeable at lower levels but as skills advance" begs the question...what do suggest are "lower" vs "advanced" levels or skills? Why does this bug you so much and what's the back story here if in fact you 'really could care less"? ;-)

And, just to be clear I don't believe they should be mandated either and think it should be a Player/parent decision that is made based on education, research and what is best for your individual situation not something you do or don't do because it's cool or makes you look weak....or as the OP suggests "shamed" into one taking one side or the other.

 

[riseball]

Thanks for the response Rise. I'm not buying it yet though just because you state here that it is an "undeniable fact". Visibility? Perhaps in some miniscule way that most players will never rely on in an actual game scenario. If it was really causing a problem where fielders can not see the ball repeatedly (or the runners or other fielders?) that would be a deal breaker for everyone wouldn't it? Mobility? I call BS on that one and would love to see the studies and/or tests that were done to so conclusively arrive at your position on this. I understand that this issue is a hot button for you as it seems like every time someone brings it up you jump into the debate. This time you describe mask proponents actions as "evangelizing and whining" and suggest they should do something to develop their kids hitting and fielding skills. When you say "not noticeable at lower levels but as skills advance" begs the question...what do suggest are "lower" vs "advanced" levels or skills? Why does this bug you so much and what's the back story here if in fact you 'really could care less"? ;-)

And, just to be clear I don't believe they should be mandated either and think it should be a Player/parent decision that is made based on education, research and what is best for your individual situation not something you do or don't do because it's cool or makes you look weak....or as the OP suggests "shamed" into one taking one side or the other.

No BS studies or other nonsense. More often than not those are opinion papers with cherry picked data to prop up a predetermined conclusion. Just speaking from years of real world experience with players who have made the transition from TB to college and beyond. When topic comes up, some have stated that they would just rather go without. Reasons vary and include visibility, wear-ability, and yes even mobility. Many are elite or even Olympic level athletes and to them ounces and fractions of a second matter. I have yet to speak with anyone who has said anything about peer pressure being a factor. In the case of batting cages many have worn them from t-ball. Yet, at the first opportunity they ditch them.

As to your question regarding my passion for the issue; I am pretty consistent whenever there is a call for a mandate that is driven primarily by emotion and very little in the way of common sense.

 

[ang2bmd]

DD’s teammate was hit in the head a couple of years ago and now wears a mask. If we’re going to mandate them this is the way to go. There’s a thick headband that goes on first and the mask then fits above. It offers far more protection and is actually effective at reducing concussion risk. The headband fits tightly to the skull which limits the mask from shifting or not fitting properly.

Of course it would be a harder sell. The key features of facemasks are comfort and appearance. These are more intrusive, bulkier, and not as attractive. Their safer, but that’s not really at the forefront of the mask debate. It’s more about having rules in place to pass the buck. If it’s left up to parents and players to decide people would have to actually parent.


View attachment 12738

We own this headband after a concussion she has to wear it during soccer and basketball. I haven't yet made her wear it softball. She does wear her facemask and a mask on her batting helmet

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Tatonka]

No BS studies or other nonsense. More often than not those are opinion papers with cherry picked data to prop up a predetermined conclusion. Just speaking from years of real world experience with players who have made the transition from TB to college and beyond. When topic comes up, some have stated that they would just rather go without. Reasons vary and include visibility, wear-ability, and yes even mobility. Many are elite or even Olympic level athletes and to them ounces and fractions of a second matter. I have yet to speak with anyone who has said anything about peer pressure being a factor. In the case of batting cages many have worn them from t-ball. Yet, at the first opportunity they ditch them.

As to your question regarding my passion for the issue; I am pretty consistent whenever there is a call for a mandate that is driven primarily by emotion and very little in the way of common sense.

OK thanks, so rather than "undeniable facts" the reality is that you've talked with some players at higher levels of the game who have voiced an opinion on the subject (it's also not usually something a player is going to readily bring up, yeah I'm afraid of getting banged up. Also lest we not forget that at the higher levels, face time on camera is becoming more and more a sought after thing...for many reasons). And yet, it seems also true that as time goes on there are more and more high level athletes who are choosing to continue wearing certain gear that they have used successfully to get to those more elite levels. I also understand the motive to seek each and every possible advantage ie; weight, friction, etc.. You may not have spoken with anyone who has said anything about peer pressure being a factor but that certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't exist (one way or another). If a player comes off the field and is speaking with her parents, friends, other team coaches or whoever and brings up the subject saying something like "yeah, I was the only one wearing a mask today" you can be pretty certain that there is a sense of peer pressure felt by that kid. That doesn't automatically mean that the kid succumbs to it either...that's a parenting discussion hopefully. And peer pressure doesn't automatically have to be bad either...individuals step up there game to meet higher expectations all the time due to unseen/unspoken peer pressure.

And again, I don't believe they (masks) should be mandated across the board at all ages or levels especially with the lack of certification standards. The call for mandating anything will almost always begin with strong emotions, many good things have come about in our world due to applying common sense standards and requirements.. The common sense thing is the hard part. Riseball I really do value your opinions and expertise in the world of Fastpitch. Honestly I don't think we are really that far apart on this issue but just based on how often the subject comes up we are doing a disservice to the sport if all we base our pro/con arguments on are anecdotal, he said/she said stories. You are an influential, well respected member of this community, not everyone's kid is fast, talented, skilled and possibly not ever going to be...they just want to play the game. That kid, should be guided in making this decision by her parents and whatever objective source of info they may choose NOT by peer pressure or shame. There is all too much of that out there already!