Photo 13 of 31, Analysis
On the general question of what should happen in a swing, maybe these visuals will help. Analysis
On the general question of what should happen in a swing, maybe these visuals will help. Analysis
Should batter hit down on ball?
- Thread starter SoCalSoftballdad
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Not sure I undestand drc9805, but if he is having her take her hands to the ball, that is bad.
Hands to the ball like this...bad. Photo 18 of 31, Analysis
Hands to the ball like this...good. Photo 15 of 31, Analysis
Hands to the ball like this...good. Photo 15 of 31, Analysis
Softball Instruction - How to Slap Hit
Just to add a site with slap hitting instructions that I think helps explain.
Just to add a site with slap hitting instructions that I think helps explain.
I didn't see anything in the thread giving a reason for the swing down cue.
In just two books the authors mention swinging down, Hank Aaron and Schmidt. In both cases the hitters had or elevated the back elbow, and perhaps the hands slightly. They can have a elevated barrel as well.
In another book the author suggests to swing up, Williams. In this case the hitter has a lower back elbow and hands.
Just about every ML hitter does a swing down, slot the back elbow, warm up swing. And just about every ML hitter starts or raises the back elbow/arm.
Do you need the cue if you keep the back elbow low (pointing toward the ground) ? Do hitters with a low back elbow swing more level?
What happens if you over teach swinging down to someone who is keeping the back elbow (or hands/bat) low? Why do hitters with a higher back elbow (hands/bat) talk about swinging down?
Is there a reason for swinging down, Yes. Do you keep swinging down through the ball, No.
If you listened to all the talk about THT or it's many forms of many hitters, most of these hitters have a higher back elbow. Without a downward force, and just thinking about sending the bat rearwards to begin the swing, you would quickly find out why hitters use the cue to swing down. Most hitters when discussing this issue, refer to the swing down cue as a means to a short swing or to prevent looping or sending the barrel backwards.
I just didn't see anything mentioned that really talked about the "why's" of the cue. How it fits or why it doesn't fit into the sciece of the swing (biomechanics).
In just two books the authors mention swinging down, Hank Aaron and Schmidt. In both cases the hitters had or elevated the back elbow, and perhaps the hands slightly. They can have a elevated barrel as well.
In another book the author suggests to swing up, Williams. In this case the hitter has a lower back elbow and hands.
Just about every ML hitter does a swing down, slot the back elbow, warm up swing. And just about every ML hitter starts or raises the back elbow/arm.
Do you need the cue if you keep the back elbow low (pointing toward the ground) ? Do hitters with a low back elbow swing more level?
What happens if you over teach swinging down to someone who is keeping the back elbow (or hands/bat) low? Why do hitters with a higher back elbow (hands/bat) talk about swinging down?
Is there a reason for swinging down, Yes. Do you keep swinging down through the ball, No.
If you listened to all the talk about THT or it's many forms of many hitters, most of these hitters have a higher back elbow. Without a downward force, and just thinking about sending the bat rearwards to begin the swing, you would quickly find out why hitters use the cue to swing down. Most hitters when discussing this issue, refer to the swing down cue as a means to a short swing or to prevent looping or sending the barrel backwards.
I just didn't see anything mentioned that really talked about the "why's" of the cue. How it fits or why it doesn't fit into the sciece of the swing (biomechanics).
Here's just one example of one author.
MLB pattern "feels like" swinging down, and in fact you start out swinging down before you end up with the "slight upswing" that Williams describes in SCIENCE OF HITTING.
The gate/PCR swing "feels like" swinging around which is a sure way of messing up the MLB pattern.
The gate/PCR swing "feels like" swinging around which is a sure way of messing up the MLB pattern.
Mankin video and discussions on posture/mechanics/swing down with an interesting point:
"In other words, I find it more productive to cure what is causing the problem than working of the problem itself."
Often there is a chicken and/or egg aspect to swing fixing.
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
YouTube - MrBatSpeed's Channel
YouTube - MrBatSpeed's Channel
>>> Jack, Thanks for these two clips theyre very helpful. What I noticed in most of the good hitters is the angle of the body at and just after contact, there seems to be a rearward body axis head through lead leg . Whereas the arm hitters are bent forward at the waist and appear disconnected from the lower body.
It has the appearance of the batter being fooled . This angle , is it to do with rear leg L and lead shoulder arm connection pullback? Do your thousands of videos support this or is it minor? This first came to my attention on the previous videos, amateur batter one hits the ball 400 and second 300. Thanks,<<<
Hi Chuck
No, the forward body lean you described is quite common with many young hitters. In fact, I find this contact [posture] with most hitters whose bat trajectory is angling downward at contact. And, as the video clips you referred to illustrate, it is also quite prevalent with batters that generate little rearward bat acceleration during the initiation phase of the swing. Although most of the best hitters rotate with their axis tilted rearward, it is not an absolute rule. Many good hitters rotate around a more vertical axis.
I find with my students that have poor contact [posture], that having them practice sound rotational principles will normally guide them into obtaining the correct poster. In other words, I find it more productive to cure what is causing the problem than working of the problem itself. As an example, a batter is less likely to lean forward during initiation while concentrating on accelerating the bat-head rearward.. He is also less likely to lean forward at contact while concentrating on getting his lead-shoulder to be pulling rearward toward the catcher.
Jack Mankin
"In other words, I find it more productive to cure what is causing the problem than working of the problem itself."
Often there is a chicken and/or egg aspect to swing fixing.
Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum
YouTube - MrBatSpeed's Channel
YouTube - MrBatSpeed's Channel
>>> Jack, Thanks for these two clips theyre very helpful. What I noticed in most of the good hitters is the angle of the body at and just after contact, there seems to be a rearward body axis head through lead leg . Whereas the arm hitters are bent forward at the waist and appear disconnected from the lower body.
It has the appearance of the batter being fooled . This angle , is it to do with rear leg L and lead shoulder arm connection pullback? Do your thousands of videos support this or is it minor? This first came to my attention on the previous videos, amateur batter one hits the ball 400 and second 300. Thanks,<<<
Hi Chuck
No, the forward body lean you described is quite common with many young hitters. In fact, I find this contact [posture] with most hitters whose bat trajectory is angling downward at contact. And, as the video clips you referred to illustrate, it is also quite prevalent with batters that generate little rearward bat acceleration during the initiation phase of the swing. Although most of the best hitters rotate with their axis tilted rearward, it is not an absolute rule. Many good hitters rotate around a more vertical axis.
I find with my students that have poor contact [posture], that having them practice sound rotational principles will normally guide them into obtaining the correct poster. In other words, I find it more productive to cure what is causing the problem than working of the problem itself. As an example, a batter is less likely to lean forward during initiation while concentrating on accelerating the bat-head rearward.. He is also less likely to lean forward at contact while concentrating on getting his lead-shoulder to be pulling rearward toward the catcher.
Jack Mankin
Tom,
Everyone swings around the body, you can't swing through the body.
A higher back elbow (arm/bat), creates a different sensation and is different then someone who keeps the elbow lower or the bat lower.
In many cases hitters who have a lower setup, usually have more extension at contact. As compared to a hitter who involves the back arm, has a little more throwing the barrel sensation compared to the hitter who starts from a position like JD Drew, Morneau, Rose, Craig B., Luis Gonzalez. The forementioned hitters are limited to what someone might call hand loading (or even barrel loading) and have to start throwing the barrel from a different perspective (which involves more extension).
Although regardless of what might be considered a higher setup hitters achieve the same results.
In either case the wheel isn't re-invented. Most amatuers collaspe the back arm (arms/bat) into the body (try to go through the body), instead of swinging around the body. Regardless of how high or low anything gets.
Everyone swings around the body, you can't swing through the body.
A higher back elbow (arm/bat), creates a different sensation and is different then someone who keeps the elbow lower or the bat lower.
In many cases hitters who have a lower setup, usually have more extension at contact. As compared to a hitter who involves the back arm, has a little more throwing the barrel sensation compared to the hitter who starts from a position like JD Drew, Morneau, Rose, Craig B., Luis Gonzalez. The forementioned hitters are limited to what someone might call hand loading (or even barrel loading) and have to start throwing the barrel from a different perspective (which involves more extension).
Although regardless of what might be considered a higher setup hitters achieve the same results.
In either case the wheel isn't re-invented. Most amatuers collaspe the back arm (arms/bat) into the body (try to go through the body), instead of swinging around the body. Regardless of how high or low anything gets.
sure Shawn, on the surface there is the swing around look, BUT you have to swing down in a steeper plane to get the resistance necessary for stretch and fire for early batspeed and late adjustability in the MLB pattern, so for years as hitters move up the ranks, they have told to swing down because they need a better pattern which is associated with the swing down feel and you will see all sorts of exaggerated swing down movements on deck to remind them they need an MLB pattern swing.
now when they see video and start to think about how the feel relates to appearance, they should understand they still need a slight upswing to have the necessary long "contact zone" that Williams described.
Mankins mechanics explain and important part of how to produce the early batspeed/rearward acceleration/swing down resistance that quickly gets to contact with a well matched slight upswing.
now when they see video and start to think about how the feel relates to appearance, they should understand they still need a slight upswing to have the necessary long "contact zone" that Williams described.
Mankins mechanics explain and important part of how to produce the early batspeed/rearward acceleration/swing down resistance that quickly gets to contact with a well matched slight upswing.
