Setting up on the corner?

[Mike]

I just watched necc’s video again but it doesn’t really address a catcher setting up on the corners. Everything in there drills had the catcher shifting the center line of there body to receive pitches on the corners. Not sure if that was just for learning how to receive or what. Question is: What do you have your catchers do to set up for pitches on the corner or off the plate?

I have mine give signs from the sign giving stance directly in the center of the plate. If the pitch is supposed to be outside to a rh hitter she simply leaves her left foot where its at, and picks up her right foot and shifts it over to the right. She knows how far to move her foot because she has practiced it. The centerline of her body is in now over the outside corner of the plate. Its an easy move and she can still shift her body if the pitch is a little off target.

I am not trying to dispute, add to, or take away from any of the Weaver’s teachings, Its just something I haven’t seen covered much, or I have missed it.

 

[InsidePitch]

I taught DD to keep moving out until the Ump calls it a ball. She sets up out there after the sign. Once she finds out where the strike zone ends she moves in an inch or two. She will do the same with the inside pitch.

The thing I like about having her move out, she is not apt to draw the glove back in giving the impression she is trying to turn a ball into a strike.

 

[Steve Huff]

Mike, this trailing leg or foot leaves the catcher in a very bad position to block pitches in the dirt in any direction, including directly in front! Once the pitcher's hands separate, the lead foot steps out to put the belly button on the outside or inside corner. The trailing foot follows, bringing the body into position into a proper, low, but balanced stance. When the feet have equal weight, this allows the catcher to drop or attack the ball in the dirt in any direction.

I teach catching the way I was taught by a Women's Hall of Fame catcher. And it works better than the traditional method I most often see.

1) The weight is on the inside edges of the feet, not the balls of the feet. This "splays" the toes out a little toward 1st and 3rd. When the weight is on the balls of the feet, the catcher must rise up, to go down! In other words the body makes a little hop to be able to drop the knees down and tuck the feet behind. This is inefficient. With the weight on the inside edges, the feet are kicked out behind, immediately dropping the catcher into a blocking position. The only thing that improves as a catcher gets more experienced, is earlier recognition. But size plays against quickness, and the pitchers increase in speed works against quickness. This method gets the catcher down twice as fast!
Lastly, the feet are clicked together, or brought together behind the hips. Just in case the catcher isn't quite down, or she lifts the glove, the closed feet won't allow the ball to go through. Most of the time with the weight on the balls of the feet technique, the legs are spread out behind the catcher.

2) This weight position allows the catcher to pick up the lead foot and step out beyond a wild pitch. So she doesn't slide or dive out to block which is slow and not very accurate in blocking. but instead literally steps to the side with the lead foot. The trailing leg knee is brought up against the back of the lead foot, or first foot. When the knee of the shinguard hits the back of the foot, the catcher automatically stands up. She doesn't have a choice! So what happens is she can run a ball down, or is ready to throw IF BY CHANCE the ball does somehow find her glove. Her legs have formed a linear position straight out to the side, while her chest faces the plate, the glove stays down directly beneath her closing the gap. You will find that this technique is way better, faster, and allows much faster retrieval of wild pitches and preparation to throw.

3) Lastly, the vast majority of bad throws by catchers are to the Right Field side of 2nd base. Why? It is because of balance. Too many coaches teach a catcher to snappily bring the ball and glove to the back shoulder to increase speed of the release. This is in reverse order! When a RH catcher steps under her back shoulder, usually this pivot of the body is all the way across and behind the left foot. This causes the next step forward toward 2nd base to be outside the "line" of her throw. In other words if you drew a straight line toward 2nd base, her left foot would end up stepping a little on the 3rd base side to catch her balance because of this over-rotation of the body. This offset balance due to over-rotation will result in the elbow of the right arm dropping, and throwing toward right field. The catcher should FIRST be taught to step to her center-line, directly under her belly-button. This creates a centered axis, or rotation, and perfect balance to set up the throw. Most, and almost all really wild throws to 2nd are caused by the step with the left foot a little toward the SS instead of directly at the bag.

After the proper footwork is learned, then the glove and hand are not swung around, but brought up toward the face. The face just happens to get out of the way during the shoulder and body rotation.

 

[redhotcoach]

Mike, imo what you are doing is right. That is what most mlb/ college fastpitch catchers do. As pitchers advance they dont need a glove target. Mlb catchers arent moving into the receiving position until almost release.

Necc is by far the authority on catcher training. If you dont know it, dont comment on it.

Steve, u do you have a vid of a catcher "stepping out beyond a wild pitch"? I am either miss understanding, or you train flash gordan.

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve, u do you have a vid of a catcher "stepping out beyond a wild pitch"? I am either miss understanding, or you train flash gordan.

So you think it takes longer to extend your foot out beyond a pitch say 15 inches outside in the dirt, than to throw your knees and big butt out to get in front of a pitch 15 inches outside in the dirt? Hmmm! If you haven't tried it, then don't knock it. Think outside the box. This system is faster getting "down" in front of the ball, and gives more lateral, and faster lateral movement. The key is weight on the inside edges of the feet, from toe to heel, and keeping it off the balls of the feet while receiving the pitch. As you step laterally out beyond the ball, the trailing knee pad drives into the back of the lead foot. The catcher automatically stands up! The legs are perpendicular to the pitch, but the chest and shoulders stay facing the pitcher, glove down.

I taught the standard mechanics for 15 years or so. I was taught this, and I have never gone back. It doesn't make me unique, it makes for better receiving! When I can post a video, I don't know. I am not where there is any fast-pitch now, or a catcher I have trained. The last catcher I taught it to is was Kristina Brodsgaard in Denmark. I will keep in touch with her. Perhaps her family has a video camera. I simply suggest you try the theory until I can get a video. Then you can teach me how to post a video here.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Steve - Maybe its just me, but I'm having trouble understanding your description without the video unfortunately. Any MLB catchers using this technique or anyone else you can point to so we can see it in action? My initial thought is that to free up the foot to step you must first transfer the weight completely to the opposite foot (i.e., weight shift right to then step left) which I'm thinking is slower than dropping and driving left off the right foot. Take a look at CCJR's New England Catching Camp website and check out the blocking description under the On-Line Camps tab at the top and take a look at the portion of the video clip after 1:20 in this link http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-catching/5384-catchers-protect-your-umpires.html#post54655 to another catching forum thread here and let us know if that's what you consider "conventional" or how it differs from what you're trying to describe.

 

[Steve Huff]

I will try to do this tomorrow. Bedtime! I can't think of any major leaguer, but I don't watch enough baseball. I will research it. When I taught this to the Danish catcher, Kristina, it blew her mind. She couldn't believe how much faster she dropped in front of the ball. I would say at least twice as fast. Your upper body never moves to drop. No weight shift up before throwing the legs back under the body. The feet are just kicked backward and the body drops just as fast as the feet can get behind the catcher. Secondly, the step out, is not just a step, for example: If the pitch is in the dirt 15" off the outside corner, the weight is already on the inside edge of the trailing foot. So she pushes off the trailing foot, body moving out, and extended leg reaching out to the side. The foot goes beyond the ball, the trailing knee drives up against the back of the foot, just after the ball is blocked, and the catcher automatically stands up to throw or pursue the ball.

When you dive out to the side, usually the ball bounces off the chest at an angle, because the chest is at an angle. The ball usually bounces toward the first base dugout or down the foul line. My technique gets the catcher out farther, and keeps the chest facing the pitcher better. And the big butt doesn't have to be lifted to go run down the ball.

It isn't my technique. I've never invented anything in softball that I would count substantial. I was a skeptic, but I saw it live, and I was a convert.

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve - Maybe its just me, but I'm having trouble understanding your description without the video unfortunately. Take a look at CCJR's New England Catching Camp website and check out the blocking description under the On-Line Camps tab at the top and take a look at the portion of the video clip after 1:20 in this link to another catching forum thread here and let us know if that's what you consider "conventional" or how it differs from what you're trying to describe.

Hey this is similar. The catcher in the video does kick back, not roll forward blocking! The only two differences are details. First, the feet should be kicked together back behind the catcher forming a "V". If the glove is lifted, or if the ball sneaks through before the glove is down, or its lifted, the feet and shin guards block the ball back behind the butt. Secondly, this catcher is lifting slightly, but not as bad as most before going down. He is really pretty quick. Kristina is faster! Sorry, just reality. However, she is not twice as fast as this guy, but is twice as fast as most. If this catcher put more weight on the inside edges of his feet, instead of being so flat-footed, this would allow this faster backward leg kick without the rise. This does collapse the knees inward a little, but I have never found that to be an issue. One thing I must mention is that if you get the feet spread too far, it limits range on wild pitches off the plate. So the heels are not spread more than about 18-20". That covers the first part of my technique (which I didn't invent or perfect).

I went to the ACC Blocking video, and these catchers are way too slow. Blocking is way too slow! Range is too small! The guy was better than most, and fairly quick. The blocking to the outside in the ACC video is useless for me.

 

[redhotcoach]

I have the mental picture of it now. I couldnt picture it before without using what we call a little league stance, because the only people we see with an 18 inch stance are little leaguers. Imo a stance that close hurts the catchers number 1 job which is to keep strikes looking like strikes. Instead of a small weight shift with a wide stance, a narrow stance forces a catcher to reach at pitches across the plate with their arm more, which looks like more movement to the umpire.

Why is the goal of blocking to be fast. I cant remember ever seeing a good catcher missing a block because the ball got past too fast. My #1 goal for blocking is deaden the ball and keeping it close in front. I dont see a better why of doing that then kicking feet out from under with slide or no slide depending on where pitch comes. Catch has chin down, shoulders ahead of hips, and body angled to keep ball in front of home. Most teach kicking out the feet creating no forward or even a little backward movement, not rolling forward to block.

 

[Steve Huff]

I have the mental picture of it now. I couldnt picture it before without using what we call a little league stance, because the only people we see with an 18 inch stance are little leaguers. Imo a stance that close hurts the catchers number 1 job which is to keep strikes looking like strikes. Instead of a small weight shift with a wide stance, a narrow stance forces a catcher to reach at pitches across the plate with their arm more, which looks like more movement to the umpire.

Why is the goal of blocking to be fast. I cant remember ever seeing a good catcher missing a block because the ball got past too fast. My #1 goal for blocking is deaden the ball and keeping it close in front. I dont see a better why of doing that then kicking feet out from under with slide or no slide depending on where pitch comes. Catch has chin down, shoulders ahead of hips, and body angled to keep ball in front of home. Most teach kicking out the feet creating no forward or even a little backward movement, not rolling forward to block.

I am guessing the spread. The issue is not the spread, but how low the catcher can get. I don't see any of these girls getting low. The guy has nice position in the video. Since when do you give a target mid-level in the strike zone? My catchers have no problem with a low target. But let me ask you another related question; if an infielder has their feet spread way beyond shoulder width, how much lateral movement, or even a quick movement forward could they make? In truth, a 3rd baseman would be lucky to have a range of one step, and probably limited to a max of that much! It is the same for a catcher. If the feet are spread too much, then there is little chance of quick lateral movement. So if the catcher can get low, just like the guy in at video, provide a low target, drop on balls faster in front of them, and move a greater distance laterally, and quicker, then why not?

I wish I was in a situation to show the lateral movement. However, I think just with the video you asked me to watch, you can see there are subtle differences in this boys technique and mine. But snapping the feet together behind is a "detail". The slight lift up before dropping is a small difference here, but might be bigger for some kids. I tell the girls to snap the feet together because it provides a bigger blocking surface. Yeah, the ball gets blocked between the legs, but that is better than running back to the backstop! This guys position when down is otherwise very, very good. Arms tucked, head and chest forward, glove down to block not catch, knees spread wide. It's all there! But there is just an advantage in quickness and in total lateral movement with my technique.

You will have to figure out how much the feet are actually spread. But this guy is flat footed, and if he rolls his weight onto the inside edges of his feet, toes pointed a little toward 1st and 3rd, I think he would have it down pat! Then he can push off laterally to get the foot beyond the ball. At the very least, even if not able to get beyond a ball, 2.5 feet say, off the plate, he will be much farther out to take a stab at the ball.