Scoring bunt that stays fair and bunt to get runner home

[drfrizank]

First situation: Batter bunts down third base line. Defense watches it closely hoping it goes foul. It stays fair and runner is at first. Is that scored as a hit?
Second situation: Batter bunts down first base side with a runner on 3rd who is coming in. Pitcher fields the ball and tries to get runner at home but she is safe on the slide. Clean play. Everyone is safe. What is the ruling?

 

[marriard]

First situation: Batter bunts down third base line. Defense watches it closely hoping it goes foul. It stays fair and runner is at first. Is that scored as a hit?

That is a hit.

Second situation: Batter bunts down first base side with a runner on 3rd who is coming in. Pitcher fields the ball and tries to get runner at home but she is safe on the slide. Clean play. Everyone is safe. What is the ruling?

As described., most likely a fielders choice if there was an opportunity to take the out on the batter-runner.

It would only be a hit if there was zero chance of making any play,

 

[peter.kottke]

Maybe a sac bunt safe on fielders choice for the second one?


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[Sweet Lou]

First one - hit.

Second one - sac bunt, reached on FC, and RBI or base hit RBI (if official scorer believed the bunter would have been safe at 1st even if a throw was made there). Though in nearly every case, sac bunt FC is how that would most likely be scored.

 

[Agcy]

First situation: Batter bunts down third base line. Defense watches it closely hoping it goes foul. It stays fair and runner is at first. Is that scored as a hit?
Second situation: Batter bunts down first base side with a runner on 3rd who is coming in. Pitcher fields the ball and tries to get runner at home but she is safe on the slide. Clean play. Everyone is safe. What is the ruling?

1. Hit

2. Fielders choice (unless your are confident that the runner would have beat out the throw). Per NCCA guidelines (which I have found to be the most robust explanations):

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

You could argue Sac Bunt, but reading around other sources, it should be Fielder's Choice in this situation.

 

[marriard]

Maybe a sac bunt safe on fielders choice for the second one?


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You can't have a sac bunt or sac fly unless the batter is actually out.

 

[benjey]

You can't have a sac bunt or sac fly unless the batter is actually out.

I don't believe that is correct. You can have a sac, reached on FC or SAC reached on error.

In regards to OP #1 is a clear hit #2 I would score a Sac, reached on FC based on description but possibly a hit it if I determined the fielder really had no chance to record an out

 

[The Man In Blue]

Yeah ... it may be in the rule book, but that is one section that I have never bothered to read.

 

[CoachJD]

I don't believe that is correct. You can have a sac, reached on FC or SAC reached on error.

Correct.

Sacrifice Fly w/Error
Had a play last week that I scored SF RBI E7 because my hitter hit a ball to deep-ish left field. Runner on third was tagging and easily would've scored. LF was camped under the ball. Hit the glove and fell out. You don't punish the batter because the outfielder messed up.

Sacrifice Fly w/Fielder's Choice
You can also have a SF FC: Runners on first and third or bases loaded. Fly ball deep enough that the runner on third could tag and score. Outfielder drops the ball, but manages to throw a runner out at second (or third) for a force out. The batter is still credited with the SF RBI, reached on a FC. I'm guessing most scorers (even me) have gotten this one wrong at some point.

Sacrifice Bunt w/Error
Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter lays down a bunt. 3B fields it, has plenty of time to get the batter, makes a wild throw into right field. That's scored SAC E5. The rationale, again, is why punish the batter? She did her job, should get credit for the sacrifice.

Sacrifice Bunt w/Fielder's Choice
You can get a SAC FC if the defense tries, unsuccessfully, to get out one of the other runners if you feel they could not have gotten the batter out, in which case it's a single.

NCAA is stupid, as usual
Also, NCAA's #4 for Fielder's Choice contradicts OBR. OBR says the defense must actually attempt to put out a preceding runner. So looking back a runner and thus making a late throw is scored a single according to OBR. Making an actual attempt, which can be somewhat subjective, would include a throw, a tag attempt, or (imo) moving toward the player in a way that clearly signals a choice being made by the defender to try to get a preceding runner out.

 

[Agcy]

Correct.

Sacrifice Fly w/Error
Had a play last week that I scored SF RBI E7 because my hitter hit a ball to deep-ish left field. Runner on third was tagging and easily would've scored. LF was camped under the ball. Hit the glove and fell out. You don't punish the batter because the outfielder messed up.

Sacrifice Fly w/Fielder's Choice
You can also have a SF FC: Runners on first and third or bases loaded. Fly ball deep enough that the runner on third could tag and score. Outfielder drops the ball, but manages to throw a runner out at second (or third) for a force out. The batter is still credited with the SF RBI, reached on a FC. I'm guessing most scorers (even me) have gotten this one wrong at some point.

Sacrifice Bunt w/Error
Runners on 1st and 2nd. Batter lays down a bunt. 3B fields it, has plenty of time to get the batter, makes a wild throw into right field. That's scored SAC E5. The rationale, again, is why punish the batter? She did her job, should get credit for the sacrifice.

Sacrifice Bunt w/Fielder's Choice
You can get a SAC FC if the defense tries, unsuccessfully, to get out one of the other runners if you feel they could not have gotten the batter out, in which case it's a single.

NCAA is stupid, as usual
Also, NCAA's #4 for Fielder's Choice contradicts OBR. OBR says the defense must actually attempt to put out a preceding runner. So looking back a runner and thus making a late throw is scored a single according to OBR. Making an actual attempt, which can be somewhat subjective, would include a throw, a tag attempt, or (imo) moving toward the player in a way that clearly signals a choice being made by the defender to try to get a preceding runner out.

Can you give a link to supporting documentation for these?

I believe that #2 in your list is still a Sac Fly w/Error.

#5, if the hitter hits to where they should be out, but the defense spends too much time looking back a runner, I think you still have FC there.