rotational hitting: bat path

[CoogansBluff]

Not sure how to ask this question, but check this photo from Parker's site on rotational hitting. It shows an upward swing. (You have to hit the link, as it's a gif format.

http://www.backbackback.com/photogallery/Moving%20batting%20skeleton.gif

This picture shows the same upward swing for fastpitch. It also shows the ball traveling downward, similar to baseball. But the trajectory of a baseball pitch (more downward) isn't the same as in fastpitch (riseball, flat, or drop). ...

Question: How does this affect the swing for fastpitch v baseball? Would there be less 'shoulder drop'? Would some argue that this upward swing is more hit or miss for fastpitch since an upward swing wouldn't stay in the hitting zone of a flat or rising pitch for as long?

 

[Justanotherdad]

No difference. A good baseball swing and softball swing look exactly the same. A riseball isn't really rising. See below from Does a Rise Ball Really Rise? Great softball pitching hints and recommendations for girl softball pitchers

Although most of us pitching instructors, pitchers, hitters, coaches, and parents feel that we have seen rise balls “hop” over the top of a bat, there is no scientific evidence to prove that a softball can be thrown with sufficient speed and backspin to make an upward arc in its trajectory. Many of us have flicked a table tennis ball to make it dramatically curve, drop, and even rise. However, it has been estimated that a 6.8 ounce softball would have to be thrown at over 90 mph with a spin speed in excess of 35 revolutions per second in order to give the ball even a minor upward arc. So…



A “RISE BALL”, EVEN WHEN THROWN CORRECTLY, DOES NOT RISE…

No pitch is thrown flat, see above.


Baseball and softball swings are all around 4 to 8 degrees up according to the videos I have looked at.

 

[softballphreak]

No difference. A good baseball swing and softball swing look exactly the same. A riseball isn't really rising. See below from Does a Rise Ball Really Rise? Great softball pitching hints and recommendations for girl softball pitchers




No pitch is thrown flat, see above.


Baseball and softball swings are all around 4 to 8 degrees up according to the videos I have looked at.

I don't doubt the part about the ball not arcing up but a ball can surely rise. A ball released at the hip and crosses the batter at shoulder level definitely rises. Goes from low to high. A ball can also be thrown flat; released at the hip and crosses the plate at the same level.

Back when they were telling us to teach players to swing level and saying baseball players were also taught that or to swing down, I never saw many baseball players who didn't swing upward. I did notice a few baseball players swinging down in the CWS this year; UNC Tar Heels I believe.

 

[rdbass]

I started my DD on a hitting program 3 weeks ago.Used a CD from someone referred to on this forum (torgue drill).Teaches Rotational Hitting and a swing upward.Barrel to the ball and finish naturally above shoulders.DD went from weak singles and pop ups to multiple hit games.DD hasn't struck out once in 10 games.DD was more of a linear swinger now she is a Rotational hitter.Swingging more like that picture above that you refer to has helped my DD become the hitter that I hoped she could be.Hope that helps?

 

[CoogansBluff]

I started my DD on a hitting program 3 weeks ago.Used a CD from someone referred to on this forum (torgue drill).Teaches Rotational Hitting and a swing upward.Barrel to the ball and finish naturally above shoulders.DD went from weak singles and pop ups to multiple hit games.DD hasn't struck out once in 10 games.DD was more of a linear swinger now she is a Rotational hitter.Swingging more like that picture above that you refer to has helped my DD become the hitter that I hoped she could be.Hope that helps?

This is what I've embarked on also, to convert my DD's swing.

Her stats: .290 hitter, best 'in-play' percentage on the team (3 SO in over 80 AB), but no extra-base hits since November, and declining production overall since first of year. No real pop, too many ground balls. I joke w/ her that her best friend is the opposing second baseman, whoever that may be at the moment. She feeds her 2-4 grounders per tournament.

Part of the issue is that she's not that strong physically, but I also believe it's mechanics. She's been working w/ a coach who has cleaned up certain things, but I don't believe he focuses enough on getting the backside through. I've never heard him discuss torque or firm front side or Power L, or what she should look like on contact.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Thanks for the point about physics and the rise ball.

We could say it this way: A fastpitch pitcher can make the ball rise, but not for long. At some point from hand to mitt, the ball begins a downward trajectory due to gravity and declining velocity, unless thrown at 90 mph.

 

[rdbass]

Coogansbluff,
Watch the youtube video by Mike Epstein -Hole in swing and Torgue drill.My DD just turned 13yo.She is just 5' and maybe weighs 70lbs.Hit alot of infielded pop ups and weak grounders to 2nd also.I watched these videos, which also can be found on this forum in the tech hitting thread.I learned so much from these 2 videos(also purchased his CD) I watched them over and over again.It has turned my DD into a strong hitter in about 3weeks.Played a game last night first at bat single over SS head. 2nd and 3rd bats hard hit balls outs, but moved runners.Last at bat hits a triple and scores a runner.Give it a try and hope it helps your DD like it has helped my DD.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Thanks, rdbass. ... I've found the 'hole in the swing' video, but where would I find the torque drill? ...

My DD is actually 5-3, 95, and only 11, so if yours is 5-0, 70, then size is no excuse for mine - although she is skinny as a corn stalk.

 

[rdbass]

Check the thread "working on her swing post #9.I think this is where it is.I can not view videos at work right now.This torgue drill will get you started.It has helped my daughter.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

A ball can also be thrown flat; released at the hip and crosses the plate at the same level.

I would disagree with the above statement. Every pitched ball has some arc to it since the ball is effected by gravity, drag, spin of the ball, and starts losing speed as soon as the pitch leaves the hand. I think DDs hitting coach is correct when she states that you want a swing plane that stays in the hitting zone as long as possible and on the same plane as the pitch. Since the pitch will have a natural arc to it, your swing plane should try to match the pitch's trajectory at POC.