I would assume that some of that 20 percent should be ruled a hit. If a shortstop knocks down a difficult grounder but still would've thrown out 90 percent of runners, but not your speedy DD, then that's a base hit. I'd think that if anyone is getting ROE 20 percent of the time, that has to be a low level of play.
ROE and OBP
- Thread starter smddad
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I would assume that some of that 20 percent should be ruled a hit. If a shortstop knocks down a difficult grounder but still would've thrown out 90 percent of runners, but not your speedy DD, then that's a base hit. I'd think that if anyone is getting ROE 20 percent of the time, that has to be a low level of play.
Off topic a bit, but I too have thought about this a lot. When I coached a men's softball team, I got sick and tired of all the whining of what was a hit and what was not. So I made a rule:
If you reached on an error, it was a hit. (FC were still counted against you). The feeling was hard hit balls or speedsters caused some of the errors.
However, if you hit into a double play, it counted as two at bats.
No official scorekeeper would ever go with that, but it was a true measure of what was going on for me. No matter who kept book, it was easy for everyone to know what was a "hit". Also, I finally got to penalize those same guys who kept hitting into ground ball double plays.
If you reached on an error, it was a hit. (FC were still counted against you). The feeling was hard hit balls or speedsters caused some of the errors.
However, if you hit into a double play, it counted as two at bats.
No official scorekeeper would ever go with that, but it was a true measure of what was going on for me. No matter who kept book, it was easy for everyone to know what was a "hit". Also, I finally got to penalize those same guys who kept hitting into ground ball double plays.
Not at all: the batter has to make a conscious decision not to swing at balls; and be willing to "take one for the team" on HBP (for most pitches).
GC gives you all the stats you need to calc wOBA manually. I have it plugged into my lineup spreadsheet as a formula, so when I paste the GC stats in it updates automatically.
Although I didn't go quite that far with a double-play, I've done the same thing with both men's and younger FP teams I've run. You get wherever you end up, except for a fielder's choice. I also counted fly-outs that advanced the runner as an AB unless it drove in a run.
An error is the failure to make a routine play, not a failure to make an outstanding one.
The problem with team scorekeepers is that some think that everything that is near a player is "routine", or that a failure to throw to the most correct place is a chargeable error. I recently had one dad try to tell me that his kid (a CF) should be charged with an error because she failed to catch a ball that was rocketed over her head to the back-hand side AND was in the sun. She got a good jump, but just couldn't reel it in, and it bounced off the fence.
When there is any doubt or debate, credit the batter.
The batter has to make an even more conscious decision to swing, and then actually hit the ball. Yet, they can hit the ball hard enough to get by a fielder and be charged with out instead of credited with a hit. Being willing to "take one for the team" is contingent on the pitcher cooperating, and more often, the batter has no choice as to whether she'll be hit...it's all up to the pitcher.
- Feb 12, 2014
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A couple thoughts on this. I saw that one of the SEC teams (can't remember which one) was keeping track of hard hit balls in the dugout. I thought this was fantastic. They didn't care whether they were outs, errors, or hits. I stole this and use it consistently with my daughter. Hard hit balls are what we are after, not necessarily hits. One of the features I like about GameChanger is that it factors hard hit balls into its quality at bat statistic.
As far as the batter not influencing walks, if you think that then you probably haven't seen an at bat by Joey Votto. The hitter absolutely plays a role in walks. They are fouling off pitches, not expanding the zone, etc.
Some softball stats are just unfair. A pop up that falls between three fielders is a double while a rocket line drive that the SS catches out of pure self defense is an out. Yep, it's not fair but neither is the game.......or life. Get used to it.
As far as the batter not influencing walks, if you think that then you probably haven't seen an at bat by Joey Votto. The hitter absolutely plays a role in walks. They are fouling off pitches, not expanding the zone, etc.
Some softball stats are just unfair. A pop up that falls between three fielders is a double while a rocket line drive that the SS catches out of pure self defense is an out. Yep, it's not fair but neither is the game.......or life. Get used to it.
- Feb 12, 2014
- 648
- 43
Watch a Florida game and then tell me the batter plays no role in the HBP. They absolutely do by the way the align themselves in the box and then the nerve to overcome the natural reaction to get the heck out of the way of a thown pitch. I wouldn't want to tell Bailey Castro she didn't have a role in all of her HBP. Saw a great interview with Craig Biggio talking this summer about getting on base via the HBP. It's an art form.
Also, not swinging is as much (or maybe more) conscious decision than swinging. I want my players to be in the swing, swing, swing mindset and only decide to hold at the last possible moment. It's a basic tenet of what Matt Lisle teaches.
Same difference - batter decides, not the pitcher. That's why BB is counted in OBP. Batter has no control over the fielder blowing a routine play, so ROE does not count.
No. That's like saying the batter is frozen and has no option or opportunity to get out of the way of a bad pitch, which is ridiculous (mostly - yes, there are some pitches that the batter will not be able to avoid).
I don't really care if you want to add ROE to your OBP calculation, and there are good reasons to add it just as there are good reasons not to add it. I say use wOBA and then you no longer have to worry about making a choice.
I understand about drawing walks...my kid is an expert. However, sometimes the pitcher throws four balls not even close...she could have gone up there without a bat and still gotten on base. Not complaining about what's not fair, just commenting on what happens.
