Risk of injury from pitching softball underhand vs. Overhand baseball

[Shawn]

The lag of the forearm compared to the upper arm in an overhand throw generates a large amount of stress on the elbow/UCL . I think I have read that the stress generated is actually much higher than failure stress (in tension) of the UCL (as measured in cadavers) but the surrounding muscles help in preventing a complete failure every time a pitch is thrown.

There is nothing that extreme in an UH throw…

There is lag in fastpitch as well.

 

[Bonesaw]

My personal unscientific opinion is that the larger circumference is easier on the arm.

I can throw a softball at pretty high effort and have no elbow pain. But I throw a few baseballs and I feel it in my elbow almost immediately. Even at low effort. I think throwin golf balls would be even worse.

I think it may have to do with the amount of ER/IR possible with the hand/fingers in different positions.

This video seems pretty relevant.



Not sure about it maybe Im just gettin old.

 

[Fluid Fastpitch]

View attachment 24735

There is lag in fastpitch as well.

Consider that the release is about to be assisted and supported by her body. As opposed to baseball where the release happens out in empty space and at a point where the pitcher is accelerating the arm away from their body. As Pattar mentioned, in an overhand throw the ligaments are only stabilized by the surrounding musculature. In softball pitching we get our muscles plus the side of our body, for stabilization. Add to it that our release point happens very near our center of mass, leaving plenty of room for the arm to uncoil and slow naturally before the tendons and ligaments of the arm are stretched to the extreme that they are in an overhand pitch follow-through.

(*Just a coach, and these are things I've just been told or find obvious to me.)

 

[CoachJD]

Here is details on stress from underhand pitching.
Some comparison noted from overhand.

Softball Pitchers' Windmill Delivery Can Cause Injury - Orthopedic Specialists of Seattle

Softball pitching subjects the biceps to high forces and torques when the player’s arm swings around to release the ball. Published in the March 2009 issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine, the study of the “windmill” pitching motion appears to explain the high incidence of anterior...

orthopedicspecialistsofseattle.com

View attachment 24725View attachment 24729
Lots of detail!
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Did this study separate pitchers with IR mechanics and those who use Hello Elbow? Because they should have, and that's an absolutely necessary component of this discussion.

The only pitchers I've dealt with (which is admittedly not a ton and also not at a high level) who have had soreness/needed time off are those who had HE mechanics. Those who at least bought in to IR mechanics and worked on those, even if not perfect, have not had the same trouble.

 

[_MIA_]

View attachment 24735

There is lag in fastpitch as well.

Did I say there wasn’t?

 

[radness]

Think there has to be some recognizing
* with acknowledging *
that what body parts are being used and how they're being used are just different.
Because of different mechanics,
may not find the similar reoccurring injury that you might find in baseball in softball. May not find the same recurring injury in softball to baseball.
____________________
Separate point~
Here are examples of why I talked about quality of the body.

There are also differences in people's bodies.
That we do not always know the details towards. For instance the length of Bones can be different. Some people have shorter or longer bones then others and these can cause irregularities in joints.
*This can be only one bone is of a irregular size in a person's body.
(Not all the bones)
And people may be completely unaware of it!
Until there becomes injury and the need for X-rays and such.

For instance recently I found out that I have negative ulnar variance which means my ulnar bone at the distal end (wrist)
is shorter than it is supposed to be.
So the wrist and the two bones that come together are not the same as it might be in the majority of people's bodies. This can also be a positive variance where it could be longer.
This happens about 20% of the population. Both men and women.
Which can change and affect the stability of the wrist joint.
And it can affect the elbow as the ulnar bone is part of that joint also.

 

[radness]

Did this study separate pitchers with IR mechanics and those who use Hello Elbow? Because they should have, and that's an absolutely necessary component of this discussion.

The only pitchers I've dealt with (which is admittedly not a ton and also not at a high level) who have had soreness/needed time off are those who had HE mechanics. Those who at least bought in to IR mechanics and worked on those, even if not perfect, have not had the same trouble.

^^^^^There's an explanation of how mechanics can affect the body.

Which pending the mechanics and the person may or may not adversely affect them.

*That link I posted was just a random Google search that I happen to find that article.

 

[radness]

Consider that the release is about to be assisted and supported by her body. As opposed to baseball where the release happens out in empty space and at a point where the pitcher is accelerating the arm away from their body. As Pattar mentioned, in an overhand throw the ligaments are only stabilized by the surrounding musculature. In softball pitching we get our muscles plus the side of our body, for stabilization. Add to it that our release point happens very near our center of mass, leaving plenty of room for the arm to uncoil and slow naturally before the tendons and ligaments of the arm are stretched to the extreme that they are in an overhand pitch follow-through.

(*Just a coach, and these are things I've just been told or find obvious to me.)

In comparison would need to be more structural analysis about what's happening in Fastpitch in the lower half/rest of the body generating its Force.

For instance hearing of softball pitchers that have lower back injury. (But the conversation would have to be were muscles healthy? Did they develop them or fatigue? Was that the weak point in the link that took the brunt of injury?

Actually here in California there is a D1 pitcher who blew out her discs in her back by pitching.
( the coach told me she has some funky mechanics to begin with but this did happen. Can we decide how come it happen? Don't know? )

Which is why liked reading the link posted because it described more towards the use of underhand pitching mechanic muscles. then only talking about a baseball pitcher's elbow.

 

[radness]

Found this injury comparison between the two sports however think this is overall injury

Incidence of Injuries in High School Softball and Baseball Players

Participation in high school sports has grown 16.1% over the last decade, but few studies have compared the overall injury risks in girls' softball and boys' baseball.To examine the incidence of injury in high school softball and baseball players.Cohort ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[_MIA_]

Even though I stopped pitching my Soph year in HS (I couldn’t pitch and play SS..my arm would be toast for like 3 or 4 days after I pitched) I had shoulder pain pretty much from Soph year in HS all the way through till I stopped playing in College. Never told anybody about it and never found out what was wrong with it. I threw a lot of BP in those years (100’s of pitches every day in the summer) as if I wanted somebody to throw me BP I would need to throw BP to them and probably never warmed up properly. Really dumb in a number of ways…My father pitched and played SS in college but had to stop pitching because of arm problems so maybe we are just genetically crappy when it comes to that Hopefully I can persuade my sons to not pitch…lol.

Now in my old age if I throw too much OH my elbow will bother me but I attribute that to tendonitis from too many years of heavy pressing movements in the weight room. Doesn’t really matter now though so I just grin and bear it..lol.