Risk of injury from pitching softball underhand vs. Overhand baseball

[_MIA_]

Thanks for adding!
Happy holidays!

Hmmm? So specifics in the mechanics causes some pitchers to injure their elbow.

Kids throw a lot harder at younger ages now due to improved knowledge of the mechanics to throw harder along with improved strength training and young pitchers throw a lot more now due to (almost) year round pitching. UCL complete tears are usually due to an accumulation (over time) of micro-tears.

Roger Clemens was only throwing in the upper 80’s when he came out of HS where you now have lots of kids, throwing almost year round, who are throwing in the mid 90’s (or higher).

I am sure there is a genetic and mechanics component to it as well.

 

[radness]

Here is details on stress from underhand pitching.
Some comparison noted from overhand.

Softball Pitchers' Windmill Delivery Can Cause Injury - Orthopedic Specialists of Seattle

Softball pitching subjects the biceps to high forces and torques when the player’s arm swings around to release the ball. Published in the March 2009 issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine, the study of the “windmill” pitching motion appears to explain the high incidence of anterior...

orthopedicspecialistsofseattle.com

Lots of detail!

 

[_MIA_]

Here is details on stress from underhand pitching.
Some comparison noted from overhand.

Softball Pitchers' Windmill Delivery Can Cause Injury - Orthopedic Specialists of Seattle

Softball pitching subjects the biceps to high forces and torques when the player’s arm swings around to release the ball. Published in the March 2009 issue of the American Journal of Sports Medicine, the study of the “windmill” pitching motion appears to explain the high incidence of anterior...

orthopedicspecialistsofseattle.com

View attachment 24725View attachment 24729
Lots of detail!
View attachment 24730

It isn’t a question about the maximal stress produced and more about the ability of the structure which is being stressed to take it.

Juarez from OU had a bicep injury which needed surgery.

 

[radness]

It isn’t a question about the maximal stress produced and more about the ability of the structure which is being stressed to take it.

That is sensible.

As I commented earlier Quality of the body.

I like in that article posted about how they talked about developing strengths in particular areas/muscles to the mechanics of the underhand pitcher.

Expresses how being prepared to utilize those different muscles is very important.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

My brother and I were both D1 pitchers who threw submarine style (so pretty close to underhand).

we both threw about low 80s tops, lived on junk. Only difference was he was good, was his school’s Appearances record holder, played 2 years of independent ball, and his shoulder imploded, ending it. I was not so good, and so probably threw 60% of the pitches he threw in his career. My shoulder is fine.

not sure I have a moral, other than, no matter what your mechanics, if you throw a lot, you might get hurt.

 

[Lemond]

Kids throw a lot harder at younger ages now due to improved knowledge of the mechanics to throw harder along with improved strength training and young pitchers throw a lot more now due to (almost) year round pitching. UCL complete tears are usually due to an accumulation (over time) of micro-tears.

Roger Clemens was only throwing in the upper 80’s when he came out of HS where you now have lots of kids, throwing almost year round, who are throwing in the mid 90’s (or higher).

I am sure there is a genetic and mechanics component to it as well.

From many of the young baseball pitchers I have seen, the increase in velo is not due to increased knowledge (or at least certainly NOT due to the application thereof), but more likely overzealous dads "encouraging" the speed increase through many days per week of throwing. The amount I see some of these kids throw outside of games makes the LL pitch count rules a pointless joke. Not to mention that every LL pitcher that can't throw breaking stuff by age 9 is almost a has-been, where they should be waiting for a few years to let their bodies develop.

Nolan Ryan had commented in an article about the increase in Tommy John surgeries in youth since the implementation of pitch counts that he felt that single sport specialization was a significant contributor. When he was a kid, he was always throwing "some"thing, just not always a baseball. Adding in footballs, skipping stones, frisbees, etc. allowed different muscles and ranges of motions to strengthen more of his "whole" arm vs stressing only the pitching-related muscles.

 

[Towny9]

From many of the young baseball pitchers I have seen, the increase in velo is not due to increased knowledge (or at least certainly NOT due to the application thereof), but more likely overzealous dads "encouraging" the speed increase through many days per week of throwing. The amount I see some of these kids throw outside of games makes the LL pitch count rules a pointless joke. Not to mention that every LL pitcher that can't throw breaking stuff by age 9 is almost a has-been, where they should be waiting for a few years to let their bodies develop.

Nolan Ryan had commented in an article about the increase in Tommy John surgeries in youth since the implementation of pitch counts that he felt that single sport specialization was a significant contributor. When he was a kid, he was always throwing "some"thing, just not always a baseball. Adding in footballs, skipping stones, frisbees, etc. allowed different muscles and ranges of motions to strengthen more of his "whole" arm vs stressing only the pitching-related muscles.

Nolan was also famous for not throwing off a mound in between starts. He would throw almost everyday, but only from flat ground.

 

[Towny9]

Overhead Work – Reduce the Injury Risk | Centre of Research Expertise for the Prevention of Musculoskeletal Disorders (CRE-MSD)

Overhead Work – Reduce the Injury Risk by Kayla M. Fewster & Clark R. Dickerson

uwaterloo.ca

Just working with your arms overhead increases your risk for injury.

 

[Vertigo]

I’ll admit I’m not very knowledgeable about baseball pitching but my DS is a varsity HS and TB pitcher and he rests his arm way more between games / lessons than DD ever has. He also does not throw full distance several times per week like she does. He currently does a lot of flat ground work which includes pull downs, and he might be up on the bump once every week to week and a half in the off-season. He also does a lot of arm care.

I do think that once a baseball pitcher tires during a game he may start to throw from a different “slot” due to arm fatigue which can lead to increased chance of injury.

My ds tore his labrum three years ago on a throw from the OF, his other position. Like Pattar mentioned, it was probably the build up of repetitive microtears during pitching that led to the injury.

 

[_MIA_]

From many of the young baseball pitchers I have seen, the increase in velo is not due to increased knowledge (or at least certainly NOT due to the application thereof), but more likely overzealous dads "encouraging" the speed increase through many days per week of throwing. The amount I see some of these kids throw outside of games makes the LL pitch count rules a pointless joke. Not to mention that every LL pitcher that can't throw breaking stuff by age 9 is almost a has-been, where they should be waiting for a few years to let their bodies develop.

Could be. All I know is that all of these HS kids that I see throwing gas seem to have pitching coaches, trainers, etc which was unheard of when I was growing up 30+ years ago