Riseball spin clips

[Balls]

Has anyone every caught a ball thrown from a jugs machine? Don't know how anyone will get anymore back spin than that. Definitely has a different look ( floats) but I don't see the rise.

You make a good point here.
I have caught to pitchers that spin the living daylights out of the ball backwards but it seems to float and not rise. I dont believe that a rise ball will actually bend upwards but I do know that a good rise will have a particular shape to it that will give the impression of a hop/jump.
I know we have had this arguement before and many believe that this an illusion, but the illusion is caused by the ball taking a particular path to the plate. I also believe that the ball seam orientation has plenty to do with the pitch resulting in the rise ball shape I speak of.
I also believe that a good drop benefits from the seam orientation aswell.

 

[goosesdad1]

Have any of you tried to do long toss throwing a rise ball - that is try throwing the rise for a strike from as great a distance a possible. It definitely looks like it floats, or doesn't fall. Just like Balls describes it. I've heard that the rise is effective because it does not behave like other objects which travel through the air towards us- it doesn't fall right- so hitters swing under it. I've also seen what looks to me like a jump in the ball.
I wonder if that "jump" isn't just a way for the brain to make up for something the eye sees, which doesn't fit what the brain expects to see. The brain has to explain the input of the eyes as something not falling as expected as "jumping up" as it approaches the expected target. Any neuroscientists on here?

 

[sluggers]

We've had many threads about riseballs and what people perceive.

The physics of a riseball: Over a given distance, the riseball does not fall as much as a bulletspin fastball or a topspin fastball.

Perceptually, a player doesn't see a good riseball until they are 14YOA or more. So, for 10 years, she learned how to catch and hit balls without backspin. Her brain has been trained to predict the final location of a ball based upon observations of speed and initial location of the ball. When she first sees a riseball, it does not match her prediction. So, she perceives the ball jumping.

The more training a batter has in hitting "normal" pitches, the more the ball is perceived to jump.

 

[abbygale]

Or there is just voodoo involved.

 

[Rocketech1]

We've had many threads about riseballs and what people perceive.

The physics of a riseball: Over a given distance, the riseball does not fall as much as a bulletspin fastball or a topspin fastball.

Perceptually, a player doesn't see a good riseball until they are 14YOA or more. So, for 10 years, she learned how to catch and hit balls without backspin. Her brain has been trained to predict the final location of a ball based upon observations of speed and initial location of the ball. When she first sees a riseball, it does not match her prediction. So, she perceives the ball jumping.

The more training a batter has in hitting "normal" pitches, the more the ball is perceived to jump.

Agree 100% with you but do have one issue that got me thinking. With almost all overhand throws, the ball is released with backspin. Is the reason the overhand throw drops more than say the rise has to due with less RPS, angle of throw and the overhand throw is not normally thrown at 100% effort, especially in warm-ups?

This weekend, I will bring out the RevFire for overhand and underhand throws and see what the spin difference is. I would guess that the overhand throw has 1/2 the spin rate than DD's riseball?

 

[CJ D]

You may be right, but I think the reason you see more drop is because of velocity. Pitcher throwing mid 50s riseball is not throwing mid 50s to another player overhand at 43 feet. However, I can say this....if you want to work riseballs with your batters, and don't want to kill a pitcher or have a machine handy, get one of the dads who can throw 50+ from a knee or on a bucket overhand, and the girls will tell you it behaves the same way. At least mine do...

 

[sluggers]

Is the reason the overhand throw drops more than say the rise has to due with less RPS, angle of throw and the overhand throw is not normally thrown at 100% effort, especially in warm-ups?

All true...and don't forget arm slot (like I did for a long time). Arm slot is the angle of the arm with respect to the body. E.g., the arm slot for sidearm is different than arm slot for "over the shoulder" throw.

People throw the ball overhand different arm slots. Usually, the arm slot is around 30 to 45 degrees from vertical. Thus, even if a person puts a lot of backspin on the ball when overhand throwing, there is never 6-12 backspin.