Push/Stride Length

[nanotech14]

There is a very good web site called ALL ABOUT SOFTBALL PITCHING that is written by Gerald Warner ex softball pitcher and coach for 40 years. He is out of Colorado and will even answer questions by E-mail. The site has a ton of pages about any question you might have on pitching. He has a formula for stride length based on DD's height. You can find it at Pitchsoftball.com. Sorry not smart enough to do links.

I like some of what he writes, but I think his pitching instructions are not completly correct. Straight arm, close the hips as your hand goes thru, (rather then after release of the ball) these are just the two that jump out at me. He talks about the hand finishing up torwards the shoulder, but not sure if he met the pitching shoulder (hello elbow) or the glove shoulder.

 

[Boomers2012]

Side view video?

Ken, is that question for me? With all the off topic conversation I wasnt sure.....

 

[Ken B]

Yup. Looking at her most recent upload, she does seem to be a little out of sync. She seems a bit stretched with her drag leg lagging at release. Two things: have her try "rocking the baby" where she loads/swings the hands back past the right hip and try a little shorter (or even lower) stride. In the video, she doesn't seem to be whipping well with a good elbow "lock." She ends up releasing somewhere near the stride knee.

 

[8isgreat]

Not sure what you mean by 'Swaybacking'. I interpret the term 'Stand tall' as 'Bad back'.

Back issues and 'Twinges'. Now you have me worried.

Has she seen an ortho surgeon for the back issues and twinges?

Has she ever pitched with a ;Forward dip'? Where she leans way forward, shoots up and forward at the same time?

Your foot, ankle and knee are the 'Brakes' for the human body when running, jogging and pitching. NOT the lower back that absorbs the shock when standing tall at the end of the pitch.

There are now other questions that must be answered here.

My daughter was diagnosed with "not quite scoleosis" - 16* curve at the bottom and 8* at the top - as much as she uses her legs/hips, she still gets a bit of a twinge in her back...and I think that's why she was pitching them high. I'll try to get a side video of her this weekend.

She's got power that's for sure - pitching 53mph consistently. But if she put it all together I think she could add a couple of mph's.
Edited to add: My daughter has no backswing either - she used to, but she felt that she wasn't getting the right finish.

 

[halskinner]

Boomers,

Sorry for the late response, just now noticed the question.

You said something was affecting her timing. I assume that to mean the timing of the ball in the circle at landing foot touchdown. Step style pitchers getting too aggressive for step style mechanics ALWAYS have those timing issues. Pitchers that use the backswing, same thing goes there too.

Many instructors will call a step style pitch as a 'Step and drag, stride and drag" and a by a few other names,. They will even call it a 'Leap and drag'. If the stride foot touches down and THEN the pivot foot comes forward of the rubber, even if they drag their pivot toe,,, Bottom line is, that is still just a s
step style pitch.

Many unknowing parents believe their kid is being taught leap and drag when they are not.

Anyways, now I have to ask and sound like a broken record; At the exact instant of landing foot touchdown, where is her pivot foot"" How tall is she and how long is her stride length, front edge of the rubber to where her stride foot toe lands??

 

[halskinner]

Nope, no backswing. Just curious.....why would you assume one would have to use a backswing in order to achieve more momentum? I agree that a backswing can add to the overall momentum of the push but in my opinion a backswing just adds more movement and more possibilities of causing mistakes. I actually took your advice from last fall and used the falling forward drill. That seemed to work pretty well for my DD.

Does the backswing add momentum was a thred that was hashed out a few monthsd ago.

Look for a thread entitled 'The Legal Rock Back. This what a leap and drag pitcher will do to develop forward momentum speed AS they are coming forward and getting to that 'Forward lean' poiint where they start their push off.

It's not a simple case of just falling forward and pushing off. You want to do it as fast as lightning, like a rattlesnake.

 

[Boomers2012]

Hal, appreciate the insight but in my opinion my DD is not step style pitcher unless your definition of a step style pitcher is someone who transfers weight to gain momentum, pushes with the push foot, extends the stride leg, dragging the push foot toe, landing and dragging the push foot/leg all while getting open and completing the arm circle. In the numerous videos I have posted of my DD pitching, does anyone else think she is a step style pitcher? If so, i guess i am confused as to the definition of a leap and drag style pitcher.....

 

[halskinner]

Hal, appreciate the insight but in my opinion my DD is not step style pitcher unless your definition of a step style pitcher is someone who transfers weight to gain momentum, pushes with the push foot, extends the stride leg, dragging the push foot toe, landing and dragging the push foot/leg all while getting open and completing the arm circle. In the numerous videos I have posted of my DD pitching, does anyone else think she is a step style pitcher? If so, i guess i am confused as to the definition of a leap and drag style pitcher.....

What defines a style of pitching ONLY relies on where the pivot is at the exact instant of landing foot touchdown, PERIOD. Nothing else determines that.

I ask again, at the instant of landing foot touchdown, where is her pivot foot?

Can you direct me to one of those videos?

 

[BoardMember]

Boomer Stop. Your DD is NOT a "step-style" pitcher.

Pretty much everyone who believes their DD may be doing something out of the ordinary gets a "your DD must be a step-style pitcher" response from Skinner. It seems to be his "go to" response. I still have yet to see sample of Hals "step-style" pitching at any level outside of the lowest levels of rec ball, and the most beginning of beginners.........

Which it seems he is very familiar with. From a lot of his advice/comment, it's obvious he spent a lot of time around rec ball pitchers........Which is not a bad thing........Someone has to help at that level..........But I digress.........

As far as your DD suddenly lengthening her stride, this usually happens when aspiring pitchers get comfortable with their mechanics and begin to push the envelope in an effort to IMPROVE..........This is NOT a bad thing..........In fact, it's a good SIGN of things to come.

Let her experiment with this extra effort for a while. Believe me, the human body and mind are a remarkable thing. She'll likely adjust her timing to match her extended stride length soon enough. And if she doesn't, she'll know that she can't throw strikes with the extra length and will naturally cut it back to a point can handle.........But LET HER PUSH THE ENVELOPE..........It's how the BEST PITCHERS improve. And it's a far cry better for HER to push her OWN envelope, then her coach trying to push it for her.......Which happens very often all too quickly..........

If you want some constructive advice........GET RID OF THE "LEAP".......Get rid of the WORD LEAP........Get rid of the vertical extension of the drive leg.........The "up and down" motion associated with the "leap" in "leap and drag" is wasted energy that plays havoc on the timing of the arm circle.........

Substitute it with a straight HARD "PUSH" AWAY from the pitching plate..........I tell my students that every inch of UP in the push is one inch LESS of forward drive...........And every inch of UP in the push is just more potentially damaging landing force on the lead leg knee/ankle..........

I want my students to "feel" like the head stays on a level plane or even sinks slightly once the push is initiated.........And only rises again as lead leg block occurs.........

I don't like the language "leap and drag".........Never have, never will........For obvious reasons.......No matter how "cool" it sounds............Push-off and drag is the most efficient leg drive a pitcher can use........ZERO waisted energy/momentum. As long as a student is TAUGHT that the pitching plate is to "PUSH OFF" and AWAY FROM........Not to Pitch From.........

This is an example "PUSH OFF AND DRAG" style mechanics..........Kind of like it says in the rule book...........

Notice this girls plant foot hits the front of the 8ft radius.....She is 5ft. 6".......With ZERO LEAP.......Zero wasted energy and direction.........If you asked her if she "leaps and drags" she tell you "hell no".........."Why would you leap vs. DRIVE FORWARD OFF THE MOUND"..........

 

[Boomers2012]

Boomer Stop. Your DD is NOT a "step-style" pitcher.

Pretty much everyone who believes their DD may be doing something out of the ordinary gets a "your DD must be a step-style pitcher" response from Skinner. It seems to be his "go to" response. I still have yet to see sample of Hals "step-style" pitching at any level outside of the lowest levels of rec ball, and the most beginning of beginners.........

Which it seems he is very familiar with. From a lot of his advice/comment, it's obvious he spent a lot of time around rec ball pitchers........Which is not a bad thing........Someone has to help at that level..........But I digress.........

As far as your DD suddenly lengthening her stride, this usually happens when aspiring pitchers get comfortable with their mechanics and begin to push the envelope in an effort to IMPROVE..........This is NOT a bad thing..........In fact, it's a good SIGN of things to come.

Let her experiment with this extra effort for a while. Believe me, the human body and mind are a remarkable thing. She'll likely adjust her timing to match her extended stride length soon enough. And if she doesn't, she'll know that she can't throw strikes with the extra length and will naturally cut it back to a point can handle.........But LET HER PUSH THE ENVELOPE..........It's how the BEST PITCHERS improve. And it's a far cry better for HER to push her OWN envelope, then her coach trying to push it for her.......Which happens very often all too quickly..........

If you want some constructive advice........GET RID OF THE "LEAP".......Get rid of the WORD LEAP........Get rid of the vertical extension of the drive leg.........The "up and down" motion associated with the "leap" in "leap and drag" is wasted energy that plays havoc on the timing of the arm circle.........

Substitute it with a straight HARD "PUSH" AWAY from the pitching plate..........I tell my students that every inch of UP in the push is one inch LESS of forward drive...........And every inch of UP in the push is just more potentially damaging landing force on the lead leg knee/ankle..........

I want my students to "feel" like the head stays on a level plane or even sinks slightly once the push is initiated.........And only rises again as lead leg block occurs.........

I don't like the language "leap and drag".........Never have, never will........For obvious reasons.......No matter how "cool" it sounds............Push-off and drag is the most efficient leg drive a pitcher can use........ZERO waisted energy/momentum. As long as a student is TAUGHT that the pitching plate is to "PUSH OFF" and AWAY FROM........Not to Pitch From.........

This is an example "PUSH OFF AND DRAG" style mechanics..........Kind of like it says in the

Notice this girls plant foot hits the front of the 8ft radius.....She is 5ft. 6".......With ZERO LEAP.......Zero wasted energy and direction.........If you asked her if she "leaps and drags" she tell you "hell no".........."Why would you leap vs. DRIVE FORWARD OFF THE MOUND"..........

Thanks BM. Great video of the push outward from the older girl. She definitely is explosive outward instead of up and out. We appreciate the info and continued help.