- Oct 12, 2009
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Push off loaded back foot to start rotational swing or not?
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- Oct 12, 2009
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There may be some push with the inside of the back foot, but it's short and quick.
- Oct 12, 2009
- 1,460
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FJRGerry
Abby's Dad
I'm not a hitting coach (just a dad) and have experimented hitting off a tee using the more traditional front heel plant, which pivots the hips, which pulls the rear heel off the ground verses pushing off with the rear foot, which pivots the hips, which forcefully causes the front heel plant (with a firm, nearly locked front leg). I've tried both methods with stride vs. no stride and find both allow hitting with power, but I think starting the sequence with the front heel plant makes more sense since it removes the possibility of over-straightening the rear leg, which can lead to lunging.
It really depends on how you look at it.
A push doesn't result in sqaushing the bug in my experience. Putting a block or even a ball behind the back foot or heel is a way to incourage a push and not spinning or creating early external rotation.
There is leverage created off the backside and the against the front side.
Heel drop as a cue, has no meaning or value IMO, until they realize that the backside begins the action. Once this is realized the stride and heel drop become somewhat insignificant. Something that just happens.
Knee extension doesn't have to happen for a push to take place. Although if you want to discuss knee extension it does happen, just not in the way most would think, it happens during what most would call loading and during the shift. Which is before foot plant, and what I heard was talk about pushing after foot plant.
I try to use just two cues, release the back knee (forward) and the back hip/pelvis. Instead of creating a forced rotation. I want to get them to a point to "expect" it to happen. Thus, if there is a good load, then unloading should become more natural (more of a release). Does this mean they don't have to work on rotation or break it down, no, it just means I want to get them to a point to expect it to happen naturally.
Any cue, such as back knee drive can be completely over done. Can it be useful?, yes, IMO it can be and like I said I want to get the hitter to a point of seeing it like as a release and not so much as driving or pushing.
I have used the term push, very well to stop any external forced rotation prior to footplant. That doesn't mean there is no rotation before foot plant.
As far as loading, I don't "just" break down into terms like just load the inside of the back leg only. There is much more to it then just loading into the back hip/leg. In any cause, once a load is created what follows should flow naturally (more of a release).
As far as some of the comments, anything can happen when cues are taken literally. Such as pushing involving only the legs and create some of the results mentioned. Or when simple models are used, just stand and fall forward.
To answer you question, yes, there is a push. Power is generated against the ground and under the foot. even though it's iniiiated higher up. Although taken literally it can lead to a number of different results. Although the details go beyond what has been mentioned in anyones posts.
A push doesn't result in sqaushing the bug in my experience. Putting a block or even a ball behind the back foot or heel is a way to incourage a push and not spinning or creating early external rotation.
There is leverage created off the backside and the against the front side.
Heel drop as a cue, has no meaning or value IMO, until they realize that the backside begins the action. Once this is realized the stride and heel drop become somewhat insignificant. Something that just happens.
Knee extension doesn't have to happen for a push to take place. Although if you want to discuss knee extension it does happen, just not in the way most would think, it happens during what most would call loading and during the shift. Which is before foot plant, and what I heard was talk about pushing after foot plant.
I try to use just two cues, release the back knee (forward) and the back hip/pelvis. Instead of creating a forced rotation. I want to get them to a point to "expect" it to happen. Thus, if there is a good load, then unloading should become more natural (more of a release). Does this mean they don't have to work on rotation or break it down, no, it just means I want to get them to a point to expect it to happen naturally.
Any cue, such as back knee drive can be completely over done. Can it be useful?, yes, IMO it can be and like I said I want to get the hitter to a point of seeing it like as a release and not so much as driving or pushing.
I have used the term push, very well to stop any external forced rotation prior to footplant. That doesn't mean there is no rotation before foot plant.
As far as loading, I don't "just" break down into terms like just load the inside of the back leg only. There is much more to it then just loading into the back hip/leg. In any cause, once a load is created what follows should flow naturally (more of a release).
As far as some of the comments, anything can happen when cues are taken literally. Such as pushing involving only the legs and create some of the results mentioned. Or when simple models are used, just stand and fall forward.
To answer you question, yes, there is a push. Power is generated against the ground and under the foot. even though it's iniiiated higher up. Although taken literally it can lead to a number of different results. Although the details go beyond what has been mentioned in anyones posts.
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So when instructing hitters on what to do after they have loaded and strided. Ok so if this toe push is done after something else iniates the swing then what starts the swing and what ques are used. Im talking about when they are loaded and ready to strike.
Not everyone may agree however I feel your commitment to hit comes when the back elbow begins to lower and the lead arm is making a good move forward of about 2 to 4 inches. The elbows are working as a team, unit, together, pair not independently. You will see some hitters at toe touch begin this process and others may be all the way at heel plant and some in between. A few years ago I thought I had come up with a new drill I called the attack mode and called Don and he laughed and explained Merv Retman had come up with that drill and called it the flat foot drill. I hand never seen it in a book or heard anyone speak of it before so I thought I was onto something.
I have the hitter load and step and land on the inside edge of the lead foot with a flexed front knee and the hands separated. There is a ball on the tee and after they pause for a moment I say swing! What I look for is ANY and I mean ANY additional movement what so ever. Swaying of the hips, rolling in the shoulder, moving the hands further back, hands dropping or raising, replanting of the front foot etc. I want them to feel this is the position to hit from! Because there is no additional momentum from the hips moving linear they must feel what their body has to do in order to initiate the swing. They may have to move the hands back a little more or have more flex in the lead foot knee however THEY find and feel what works best. Then we have then take swings without stopping and they appear to flow to the ball without stopping or hesitating during the load to toe touch and become much more fluid like the water flowing in the bottle.
I added a 5 gallon bucket filled about 1/3 with concrete with nails under it so it will not move on the astro turf. The plastic bucket surface allows the foot to slide down even with gym shoes. I tried PVC, Plexiglas, sheet metal, laminate flooring and the bucket works the best. The concrete keeps the side walls of the bucket from giving in and my next design will be with a 2 x 10 wedged inside the bucket and I will make the side walls of the bucket bulge out more so there is less surface for the shoe to slide on which should make it even easier to slide down to heel plant.
Getting them to feel this position seems to get that, I got it now coach look! I was in a gym doing a clinic and had 60 kids stepping into the wall feeling this when one kid swung and hit the wall! So I tried it on the bleaches that pull out and there was too much clearance under the bleacher to the floor, so we made buckets so we can actually hit during soft toss and tee work.
Thanks Howard
Thanks Howard, starting the swing with the upper body (elbows leading the way) will be easy to teach. I do that same drill with the pause and I am getting great results already. So when u say that the may have to move the hands back a little or have more flex in the front knee thats ok because eventually it will become a fluid and natural process. However youre saying that if after striding they transfer weight forward (linear) this is not acceptable.
Thanks Eric
Thanks Eric
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