Pure barrels or cut!

[_MIA_]

When someone makes a comment that is open for interpretation, the results are not always clear.

Ultimately there are two types of people in this world:
1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Ok I am quoting this in case it wasn't on purpose for the sake of irony...

That said, knowing you it was probably on purpose and quite clever if I may say so

 

[BigSkyHi]

Thanks for redirecting this conversation because it really is a good discussion on two different swing path approaches. I made this video a number of years ago. No disrespect intended to LC who is amazing BUT to illustrate how 1. approach does not always match game swings. 2. How disastrous it would be if a young player took her advice literally. 3. how she approaches the swing does have a real impact on her intended bat path.

There is no question. SR is not thinking first and foremost "Turn the Barrel in the back and get on plane early". She is more likely thinking "get to and through the ball".

Anyhow. This is a pretty cool video -

Sure glad nobody in college told her she could not drop her hands; pull everything through with the front side of her body and try to hit home runs.

 

[clemenslee1]

This has been explained a thousand times. My advice,

• Make an effort to understand what the pros mean by down to.
• Hanson Principle is applicable during the pro demos/drills as well. They are isolating their hands in these demos, missing important components like sequence and posture
• Pick up a bat and try it, down to with good sequence and posture, what happens to the resulting barrel path? Apply the Hanson Principle to these swings

Bam! This right here needs to be done, no matter what philosophy or idea you have concerning the swing. You will change you mind quickly concerning what you believe works or not.

 

[FP26]

Ok I am quoting this in case it wasn't on purpose for the sake of irony...

That said, knowing you it was probably on purpose and quite clever if I may say so

Yep, on purpose. Just waiting for someone to ask where #2 was...

 

[_MIA_]

Yep, on purpose. Just waiting for someone to ask where #2 was...

My kind of guy!!

 

[jdint]

When someone makes a comment that is open for interpretation, the results are not always clear.

Ultimately there are two types of people in this world:
1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

I'm totally using this at work. "What do you mean incomplete data? Extrapolate People!"

 

[julray]

Of course I see good posture and sequence in a major league swing. Especially when watching slow motion video. What I don't see, is anything about posture or sequence in any of the popular hitting demos. (I'm sure there are some out there, but the ones that get referenced on this site the most don't mention it...Pujols etc.) Hence, watch what they do, not necessarily what they say, or at least not just what they say.

I don't know what this has to do with TTB. Whether you're focused on TTB, or focusing on posture and sequence, you are still watching video to try and determine what it is they are actually doing. Otherwise you would be chopping down on the ball like they demonstrate.

I do think it's possible to use good sequence and posture and chop down on the ball. It's been taught like that for years.

I personally believe (and I think you might agree) that swinging around your spine with the proper tilt will result in a good barrel path. In golf they sometimes refer to it as replacing the front shoulder with the rear shoulder, but this doesn't happen automatically for a lot of people. It has to be taught to some/many. My natural tendency is to swing around rather than under, as is a lot of people's tendency, which is why so many people slice the ball.

At this point I might be arguing just for the sake of arguing. Character flaw I have.

I hear ya man, I was right there with you. We only get a piece of the pie not the entire thing.. yes I like the entire pie

TTB comes into play in this discussion because there are two main streams of thought out there and they do contradict each other. What I do know for sure is the pros talk about, practice and demo "down to" and they do not talk about TTB. Yes I understand they don't talk about posture and FYB either but that easily identified in a game swing and we can easily see it's missing in a demo swing. So here's my logic..

• The pros say, practice and demo down to... Check
• FYB sequence is evident in a pro swing... Check
• Establishing and maintaining Posture is evident in a pro swing... Check
• The pros do not talk about TTB at all... Check

So this might not be for everybody, but I put my trust in what the best in the world say/said. I thought they were all smoke and mirrors in their demos, but still I wanted to find why they keep saying "down to".. it's obviously their focal point in every interview, they believe it's important, they always talk about it. So WHY. So instead of looking at film and saying these guys are crazy .. I put my faith in what they were saying. When point 1 is combined with point 2 & 3 you get a major league swing. So in regards to the hands, why would I practice something the pros don't talk about (TTB), when they are telling us exactly what they are doing?

My natural tendency is to swing around rather than under, as is a lot of people's tendency, which is why so many people slice the ball.

Swinging around is a flaw, but I would focus more on swinging through then under, JMHO

 

[efastball]

Why did you lose a decade and listening and not learning? Slow motion video has been around for a long time, tons of footage, tons of video.

You are making me feel really old, since I have been doing this long before most end users had access to slow motion videos. They did have color photos though.

In the 90s, I paid for a group lesson once from a very very famous fastpitch player who taught my girls how to do the fence drill, inches away from the torso, and to throw your hands at the ball, then extend your arms fully, and flip them at the end for power. Plus I was armed with cues like 'hands to the ball', 'door knocking knuckles', 'roll your wrists', etc. Who was I to question this expert? Years later I saw my first slow motion videos of her, and others, and I had questions. About everything I had been told. Then I found out about Siggy, and Mankin, and other questioners. Then I started a website.

 

[FP26]

I hear ya man, I was right there with you. We only get a piece of the pie not the entire thing.. yes I like the entire pie

TTB comes into play in this discussion because there are two main streams of thought out there and they do contradict each other. What I do know for sure is the pros talk about, practice and demo "down to" and they do not talk about TTB. Yes I understand they don't talk about posture and FYB either but that easily identified in a game swing and we can easily see it's missing in a demo swing. So here's my logic..

• The pros say, practice and demo down to... Check
• FYB sequence is evident in a pro swing... Check
• Establishing and maintaining Posture is evident in a pro swing... Check
• The pros do not talk about TTB at all... Check

So this might not be for everybody, but I put my trust in what the best in the world say/said. I thought they were all smoke and mirrors in their demos, but still I wanted to find why they keep saying "down to".. it's obviously their focal point in every interview, they believe it's important, they always talk about it. So WHY. So instead of looking at film and saying these guys are crazy .. I put my faith in what they were saying. When point 1 is combined with point 2 & 3 you get a major league swing. So in regards to the hands, why would I practice something the pros don't talk about (TTB), when they are telling us exactly what they are doing?


Swinging around is a flaw, but I would focus more on swinging through then under, JMHO

I agree with most of what you are saying. The problem is that no pros talk about TTB because it is a forum term. It is something that certain forum users talk about. @TDS likes to talk about staying within the sagittal plane, and frankly that is something I agree with him on. However, I challenge you to find pros that talk about the sagittal plane.

 

[julray]

I agree with most of what you are saying. The problem is that no pros talk about TTB because it is a forum term. It is something that certain forum users talk about. @TDS likes to talk about staying within the sagittal plane, and frankly that is something I agree with him on. However, I challenge you to find pros that talk about the sagittal plane.

I agree 100% FP, in regard to where the term originates from. However the "down to" the best hitters demo and talk about is completely opposite of the action of turning the barrel. So if they never heard that term before I would expect at least to see it during the demos and during their drills. I know I mentioned it previously in my post that they don't talk about TTB, however I am more interested in what they talk about, and they talk about "down to" a lot. Obviously there are missing components in their demos and that's where my interest is, what's missing? What components paired with "down to" composes a major league swing.

I would to hear them talk more about proper sequence and posture