Pure barrels or cut!

[FP26]

I agree 100% FP, in regard to where the term originates from. However the "down to" the best hitters demo and talk about is completely opposite of the action of turning the barrel. So if they never heard that term before I would expect at least to see it during the demos and during their drills. I know I mentioned it previously in my post that they don't talk about TTB, however I am more interested in what they talk about, and they talk about "down to" a lot. Obviously there are missing components in their demos and that's where my interest is, what's missing? What components paired with "down to" composes a major league swing.

I would to hear them talk more about proper sequence and posture

Pros also talk about "palm up" quite a bit, which is very similar to what I consider TTB. When you watch their demos of "down to", I rarely see any palms facing up. But in their game swings, I do.

 

[RichK]

...there are two main streams of thought out there and they do contradict each other.

There's two, really? How would you define them?

Mine is right and yours is wrong (jk Julray, you know I love YOU )

(BTW, the guy who isn't here but nonetheless stands in for the 'other side' in every DFP hitting argument including this one ALSO believes that when major leaguers say they swing down they really do mean they swing down...see below)

Which makes you wonder, sometimes: Are these arguments, framed as two opposite 'streams of thought', even the right arguments at all, with Ts&Cs of the debate properly and fairly defined?

 

[Towny9]

I was listening to Kevin Youkilis’s Podcast today because he had a high school teammate of mine, Michael Cuddyer, on with him. At the 47-54 min mark they talk about hitting thoughts and cues and verbiage used by hitting instructors today. Thought it was a good listen and insight into what pros think and “feel” in their swings. Made me think of you guys and this thread.

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1015021/5053805-former-mlb-player-michael-cuddyer-joins-kevin-youkilis-on-this-episode-of-the-greek-god-of-hops?client_source=twitter_card&player_type=full_screen

 

[julray]

There's two, really? How would you define them?

Mine is right and yours is wrong (jk Julray, you know I love YOU )

(BTW, the guy who isn't here but nonetheless stands in for the 'other side' in every DFP hitting argument including this one ALSO believes that when major leaguers say they swing down they really do mean they swing down...see below)

Which makes you wonder, sometimes: Are these arguments, framed as two opposite 'streams of thought', even the right arguments at all, with Ts&Cs of the debate properly and fairly defined?

It’s actually yours against theirs(best hitters in the world), not mine . We are having a good discussion here, no need muddying the waters, we both know that what the pros demo and practice(specifically hands) is not the same movement pattern your buddy (my turn to kid) preaches.

I don’t really care tbh what anybody believes, just sharing my journey and advising others not to discount what the pros say and do without trying to understand what they mean. Or better again pick up a bat, “down to” with good sequence and posture. Seriously all these hitters, talk about it, practice it and demo it, are you at least curious?

FYI, I keep saying “you” and I don’t always mean you personally

 

[julray]

Pros also talk about "palm up" quite a bit, which is very similar to what I consider TTB. When you watch their demos of "down to", I rarely see any palms facing up. But in their game swings, I do.

Pick up the bat and try, down to with good sequence and posture, what happens to the barrel, what’s the resulting barrel path?

 

[ArmWhip]

Does it? EF mentioned the Hanson Principle, can you not see good sequence and posture in a major league swing? I didn't make it up, it's obvious .. do you agree with that?

What get's added is the objective of TTB from go.. those jumping to the result, looking for a shortcut of getting the barrel on plane early in a swing.

Just my two cents, stop interpreting, pick up a bat, try to swing "down to" with great sequence and posture. See what happens.

I agree demos can be misleading.. not just baseball, all sports especially when isolating movements and not including the overall sequence

Edit: The point I am making here is a lot of people on here complain and discredit what the best in the game say, demo and practice. Many on here try to explain how "down to" is incorporated in a swing.. but instead of listening or trying it themselves they just talk about barrel path. You agree that barrel path is a result of upstream actions? Is it that much of a stretch to understand how down to with good sequence and posture leads to the barrel path we see in a major league swing?

View attachment 18911 View attachment 18912

Let's look at this swing in the context of the OP. How are you going to hit this ball just below the centerline and generate backspin? Bat angle at contact seems to have been left out of the discussion.

 

[julray]

Let's look at this swing in the context of the OP. How are you going to hit this ball just below the centerline and generate backspin? Bat angle at contact seems to have been left out of the discussion.

Is this question for me, based on what I wrote? Sorry I am not sure what you are asking me here?

 

[Quasimodo]

I am sorry to say this, sort of, but you have two round objects traveling at high rates of speed, one about 3.5" diameter, perhaps with a "sweet-spot" for your desired effect of 3/8" just below the ball's center, and another 2.25" diameter with a linear sweet spot of .25" wide, which are to match up those sweet spots with minimal "offset" to launch the ball between 13-30°? And any miscalculation as to perceived terminal pitch location, or a swing that is compromised by less than .25" of intended bat path will result in less than optimal contact? Contact which will largely be in the air rather than on the ground which would requires 3 plays, catch-throw-catch, rather than just snapping that 12.5" glove closed in the outfield?

There are things I read here that might be just for fun. But if you are expecting to teach your kids, DD, or teams with phenomena that largely are either unique to a minimum of exceptional athletes like Lauren Chamberlain I think that is biting off more than you need to chew! She played with Team USA in 2013.
"In thirty-eight games with the Pride during the 2015 summer season, Chamberlain hit .205 with five home runs and eleven RBI."

Would squaring up the ball have improved her performance and time on the grand stage? It might be fun discussion, but if it is your new thing, you might want to think about it thoroughly. What works in soft-toss or even 60mph fails to stand up when the DD faces 68mph with superior changes of speed and movement and her bat, if she is exceptional, is traveling 70-73mph. That little wedge of success starts to seem pretty thin.

Yes, I only played 1/2 a year in the outfield, but I had a RH batter hit a back-spin line drive right at me and fell on my butt. Embarrassing. And if major leaguers, those exceptional athletes could do it every time, they would . . . . but they can't! So how much is the average athlete sacrificing?

 

[FP26]

Pick up the bat and try, down to with good sequence and posture, what happens to the barrel, what’s the resulting barrel path?

Dont forget, I dont argue about swinging down. My belief is that the down turns to slightly up prior to ideal contact. I dont discount other people's terms. Its other people that discount my terms.

 

[julray]

Dont forget, I dont argue about swinging down. My belief is that the down turns to slightly up prior to ideal contact. I dont discount other people's terms. Its other people that discount my terms.

Not you personally .. but some are using the pros own words of “ down to” to fit their own agenda. For example, TM. And we both know that what the pros mean and what TM is talking about are not the same. We’ve seen enough of what TM does and what the pros demo/practice to know they are not referring to the same thing ... just TM using the pros own words and misrepresenting in his model. JMHO