Picked up habit of dropping hands

[FiveFrameSwing]

I'll respectfully disagree.

Along with other sequential issues.

FFS: This is not a DBSF type issue.

RDBASS: I'll respectfully disagree.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I see the 'confusing'. I should have been more specific with my disagreement on the gif. It's not DBSF but, to me it's 'level/leveling to the ball and swinging'. I was focusing on the hands leveling not the barrel. Good luck dad.

Thank you for the clarification Rdb.

 

[Shawn]

I like an open stance but, how is this going to help the 'level to the ball swing'.

This hitter already remains 'open' during her swing.
Again JMHO but, this hitter has other more important flaws that need to be address than her stances.

The open stance is a loading technique. Right now she is slowly opening throughout the sequence. With an open stance you can create a forward by coil which should create a change of direction in the loading and then swing. You create overlap in the swing, a pre swing phase and swing phase. There is closing up with a open stance which should help with the early opening of the front side that is happening right now.

 

[Eric F]

Seems to me that this kid passes through a reasonable upright-vee (albeit some may consider a bit draggy) for this to be a DBSF candidate.

Can I get an explanation of DBSF? Does it stand for Drops-Barrel-Swings-Flat? Is the barrel in the above photo considered to have the barrel dropped? Is the barrel expected to swing flat from here? If so, what is the word 'flat' relative too?

I referenced DBSF on the first page, before we had video, based on the description in the OP (again highlighting the importance of video for diagnosing swing issues).

DBSF is an acronym for "Drops the Barrel, Swings Flat". The "Flat" part of it is in reference to being level with the ground. That said, the swing doesn't need to be completely level with the ground to be considered a DBSF pattern swing (IMO). It's more about a pre-launch leveling process where the hands drop to the anticipated pitch height during the pitch-reading phase. The DBSF movement seems largely to do with a flawed understanding of a diagonal swing plane, and is often a result of coaches instructing young players to have a "level swing" (or something to that effect).

In the case of this young hitter (based on the GIF clip), I would consider it DBSF, but not as severely as some of the other examples you provided on page 3. There is a pre-launch movement of dropping the hands towards the level of the ball, but she isn't completely giving up the vertical V in the rear arm, as you noted. That being the case, recovery to a proper swing pattern may be easier than if the hitter had a more pronounced DBSF movement.

 

[djcarter1966]

Hate it when I miss a good thread...I don't post on weekends.

To OP: I think you correctly identified an issue in you DD swing. You know she should not be moving her hands down as the ball is coming towards her, whether you did or did not have the problem solved before or if you call it "Drop barrel swing flat" versus drop hands swing with bat drag or whatever does not really matter IMO. I think as always I would start from the beginning and make sure she has the proper sequence, we always preach this at there is a reason without the right sequence you are just going to keep putting band aid on what are foundational issues.

I can't seem to get the videos but just looking at the gifs I would start with getting her to understand coiling and reaching back while striding forward and go from there (If she is reaching back correctly it might help keep her hands where they belong longer). Hand height is OK for me, stepping in the bucket is not.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I referenced DBSF on the first page, before we had video, based on the description in the PO (again highlighting the importance of video for diagnosing swing issues).

DBSF is an acronym for "Drops the Barrel, Swings Flat". The "Flat" part of it is in reference to being level with the ground. That said, the swing doesn't need to be completely level with the ground to be considered a DBSF pattern swing (IMO). It's more about a pre-launch leveling process where the hands drop to the anticipated pitch height during the pitch-reading phase. The DBSF movement seems largely to do with a flawed understanding of a diagonal swing plane, and is often a result of coaches instructing young players to have a "level swing" (or something to that effect).

In the case of this young hitter (based on the GIF clip), I would consider it DBSF, but not as severely as some of the other examples you provided on page 3. There is a pre-launch movement of dropping the hands towards the level of the ball, but she isn't completely giving up the vertical V in the rear arm, as you noted. That being the case, recovery to a proper swing patter may be easier than if the hitter had a more pronounced DBSF movement.

LOL. So the DB in DBSF is for "Drops Barrel", and despite a swing being void of the "DB", it is still classified as "DBSF".

To continue with the humor, the "SF" part of "DBSF" doesn't have to be in tact to be classified as "DBSF".

From the beginning I stated that what was being classified as "DBSF" was simply a "leveling" issue.

I do find it funny that after all this time a swing doesn't have to have the "DB" or "SF" to be considered "DBSF" .

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Hate it when I miss a good thread...I don't post on weekends.

To OP: I think you correctly identified an issue in you DD swing. You know she should not be moving her hands down as the ball is coming towards her, whether you did or did not have the problem solved before or if you call it "Drop barrel swing flat" versus drop hands swing with bat drag or whatever does not really matter IMO. I think as always I would start from the beginning and make sure she has the proper sequence, we always preach this at there is a reason without the right sequence you are just going to keep putting band aid on what are foundational issues.

I can't seem to get the videos but just looking at the gifs I would start with getting her to understand coiling and reaching back while striding forward and go from there (If she is reaching back correctly it might help keep her hands where they belong longer). Hand height is OK for me, stepping in the bucket is not.

This is where the hitter is being instructed to start her hands in her stance.

The OP seems to believe his daughter should swing from this hand height. He has three college coaches that recommend that … or at least that is his current interpretation of the advice he is receiving.

The reality is that she needs to lower her hands from this orientation to have any chance of putting a decent swing on the ball.

Personally I think the OP is chasing the wrong issues. For now they seem to be interested in not lowering the hands from this "high hands position within the stance" ... and until that goal is modified there won't be a lot of progress IMO.

 

[djcarter1966]

This is where the hitter is being instructed to start her hands in her stance.

The OP seems to believe his daughter should swing from this hand height. He has three college coaches that recommend that … or at least that is his current interpretation of the advice he is receiving.

The reality is that she needs to lower her hands from this orientation to have any chance of putting a decent swing on the ball.

Personally I think the OP is chasing the wrong issues. For now they seem to be interested in not lowering the hands from this "high hands position within the stance" ... and until that goal is modified there won't be a lot of progress IMO.

I can't see all the swings because of my computer but looking a the gif bat at shoulder height seems OK. I think one of her issues as mentioned is lack of backward movement of the bat/hands, the bat should travel back and this is usually accompanied by the elbow coming up all this would bring the bat to a natural shoulder height just before hands launch. To OP look for this position to get you a good start it won't necessarily solve the dropping hands issue but it might help make sure she starts from the correct position again sequence is everything.

 

[Eric F]

LOL. So the DB in DBSF is for "Drops Barrel", and despite a swing being void of the "DB", it is still classified as "DBSF".

To continue with the humor, the "SF" part of "DBSF" doesn't have to be in tact to be classified as "DBSF".

From the beginning I stated that what was being classified as "DBSF" was simply a "leveling" issue.

I do find it funny that after all this time a swing doesn't have to have the "DB" or "SF" to be considered "DBSF" .

I see some elements of this young hitter's swing that fall into the same pattern as those with fully flattened barrels and swing planes - hands dropping below shoulder level and barrel flattening during pitch-reading/pre-launch. Enough so that it falls into the DBSF-type swing pattern realm...IMO, YMMV. As I said before, it's not as severe as some cases, such as the ones you posted earlier.

Yes, it is a leveling issue. I don't know that anyone has ever said otherwise. DBSF is a term that just kind of stuck on DFP for swings that incorporate certain characteristics. If you don't like the term DBSF, don't use it. Not a big deal either way.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I see some elements of this young hitter's swing that fall into the same pattern as those with fully flattened barrels and swing planes - hands dropping below shoulder level and barrel flattening during pitch-reading/pre-launch. Enough so that it falls into the DBSF-type swing pattern realm...IMO, YMMV. As I said before, it's not as severe as some cases, such as the ones you posted earlier.

Yes, it is a leveling issue. I don't know that anyone has ever said otherwise. DBSF is a term that just kind of stuck on DFP for swings that incorporate certain characteristics. If you don't like the term DBSF, don't use it. Not a big deal either way.

Right ... it is not as severe a case of DBSF because there is no DB ... and the barrel is diagonal, not flat.

It's a nonsense description IMO. Simply a leveling issue that can be corrected as a leveling issue.