Palm position from 9 to 6???

[Rick Pauly]

Sorry for the additional inquiry...

First, in the picture on the left, it appears that she's using a three finger grip, as the ring finger seems to be there in a position to be the third finger in this grip. Wouldn't it be more out of the way if it were a true two-finger grip??

I have never had a young lady feel comfortable with a two finger grip.......all feel a loss of control. I've personally tried it but could not get comfortable with the two finger grip either.

Secondly, even though her middle finger is in-line with the red tape in the left picture, in the right picture it seems as though that curved index finger ends up turning the ball some so that the index finger is very nearly perpendicular to the red tape. Can you explain what's really happening? What's the rotation? That is, catching for her on this pitch would you see the ball rotating with a smooth red line with a rotation like boardmember often shows?

The index finger is ever so slightly off-center and actually snaps a little inward so that spin ends up 12/6; or as the catcher sees it the red tape is right down the middle of the ball.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

CoachScott
Here is that rear view you asked to see. Hope this helps a bit.

Rick would you say that there is a rotation taking place during the downswing that moves the orientation of the palm from 3B towards palm-up?

 

[gvm]

rick do you have this view while throwing a riseball or a curveball? using the same camera of course? this is amazing stuff !!!

 

[Rick Pauly]

Check around the 55 sec. mark in the video. I see some rotation in the direction of "palm to the sky", although in this pitch the rotation only gets about half way to a true palm to the sky position.
The peak of the "palm to the sky" position seams to happen just as the hips and shoulders have reached their peak separation (hips rotate before shoulders). As the hips begin to decelerate into a stop, the shoulder rotation begins to catch up and the hand/ball position begins to move back to facing third base.
This action is part of the whole "deceleration" effect discussion......probably needs more discussion.

Rick would you say that there is a rotation taking place during the downswing that moves the orientation of the palm from 3B towards palm-up?

 

[ArmWhip]

Ball/hand orientation at the 6 o'clock position is going to be affected by the type of pitch being thrown. The direction that the palm faces is different for every pitch, or it should be.

 

[CoachScott]

As the hips begin to decelerate into a stop, the shoulder rotation begins to catch up and the hand/ball position begins to move back to facing third base.
This action is part of the whole "deceleration" effect discussion......probably needs more discussion.

Was this 'deceleration' effect discussed before? Where? As i do not recall. If not could maybe you start a new thread bringing more discussion to it?

I love the videos, keep them coming Rick, thanks. Nothing like seeing it in action.

 

[Rich Balswick]

I would submit that the palm and ball should be facing third base at 9:00 as a neutral position for both the rise and drop and for all pitches that I'm aware of.

"Howl" Balswick signing off for awhile

 

[Rocketech1]

I would submit that the palm and ball should be facing third base at 9:00 as a neutral position for both the rise and drop and for all pitches that I'm aware of.

Why? Wouldn't you want to maximize the internal rotation by having the palm to the sky at 9:00 to generate the most rotation going into down the circle to 6:00 for more speed and velocity? The elite pitchers certainly get the palm more to the sky than towards 3rd base.

 

[JJsqueeze]

I for one see a lot of top pitchers as having the ball more towards third at 9 O clock, then as they accelerate down the palm naturally rotates skyward in reaction the acceleration and then immediately I/Rs into release. I'll find the clips I am talking about.

Actually, the clip Rick posts in this thread is a good example. It looks to me like Sarah is more 3rd base than sky at 9 o clock, then as she comes down it rotates more skyward and then she goes into release, this is really similar to the Finch slo motion as well. They both get skyward at a certain point, it is just not as early as 9 oclock. Ueno, Abbott, Cat all have a very pronounced skyward palm by 9, usually sooner, but there are quite a few great one who don't.

The more video I see, the more I see anything as saying you need the palm skyward at 9 o clock as more style than fundamental. As long as the arm is loaded as fully as it can be as it goes into release, I don't see how the "when" matters.

 

[Rocketech1]

The more video I see, the more I see anything as saying you need the palm skyward at 9 o clock as more style than fundamental. As long as the arm is loaded as fully as it can be as it goes into release, I don't see how the "when" matters.

Getting palm to the sky is getting fully loaded before you immediately start internally rotating into release. In essence, the hand and arm are fully externally rotated to palm to the sky and then immediately start the arm whip in which the arm rotates into release. I'm convinced that the more open the hand is at 9:00 the more spin and velocity will be added to the pitch.

Do this experiment. Hold out your arm so the palm is up and rotate it fast so the palm is down. Now do the same drill but have your palm facing the wall and than rotate the hand fast so it's now down. Which drill creates a rotation that engages both the shoulder and elbow rotation simultaneously? If you said the 1st one you would be correct. BM argues this is the fastest action in the body. Why not use it to its maximum effect.