Palm position from 9 to 6???

[Ken B]

Hopefully others can post with their experiences, cues, progressions and ideas. Try stuff out yourself and once you can feel it, I think it makes it easier to see what needs to happen and help facilitate the learning. Otherwise, you're taking a bunch of drills or cues and may or may not find success.

 

[CoachScott]

Ah, there you. I have been trying it out myself. I find myself leading with pinky between 9 & 8 pulling the ball down to whip. What had me think about this is I saw young ones, pulling down further before leading with pinky. There is alot of discussion on the circle, ball down @3, facing catcher @12, palm up @9. What I'm looking for is what is happening from 9 to 6 when going from palm up to inside the ball where the whip begins. Someone mentioned earlier, we're in the acceleration phase (Sorry, to lazy to go back and look who said it).

Oh, this might be a better way to vision it, maybe. From 9 to the 'locked in'. Some start to lead with pinky right after 9, others start leading at or what appears at 'locked in'. With the younger girls the speed is somewhat slow enough to see when the hand disappears and the balls is more prevalent towards third. Does this even matter? As I said I may be splitting hairs here.

Either way they both seem to get the 2 to 8 spin (pitchers view) that BM speaks of. This of course on their "good" pitches.

What made me think of this last quarter of the circle was the "elbow in the side thread", then when Rick posted his vid and stated not to put to much emphasis on the palm under after 9 (probably bad paraphrase). That got me thinking, what happens in that last quarter prior to IR/brush interference as I clearly see ever so slightly 2 differences. Does it even matter if they are comfortable with it as the results are the same?

Mind you I had to re-teach myself pitching. I pitched 10 man Modified which is very, very different to windmill. I had very bad habits ingrained, that sometime still show up. I'm great in slo-mo though, lol. Funny thing around here though, everyone wants to still push the ball. I'm trying to help fix that. But i digress again.

 

[Rick Pauly]

CoachScott
Here is that rear view you asked to see. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Few questions, Rick....

The grip Sarah uses here is interesting--different from what I would expect. What part of the ball is she putting her middle and index fingers? Look at the 1:50-1:55

Also, what would you say is the last point of skin contact as the ball is released? Index finger? If so, where on the index finger? Or, is it the tips of the index and middle fingers simultaneously?

Further, at the 1:35 mark, it appears that her index finger is curled somewhat, but at release it appears to be almost squared behind the middle of the ball relative to the direction that index finger is traveling. Insight?

 

[Rick Pauly]

Good questions Doug. These pics should answer them.
If I were starting from scratch I think I would try to change a few things about her dropball grip. As you noted, the index finger is split and has a slight curl to it.....I am pretty sure this is "bleed-over" from her riseball grip. Note that the middle finger is on the red tape which is centered perpendicular across the four seams.
In the second pic' at release it is the index finger that is last off the ball....preceded closely by the middle finger.

Starting over I would try to narrow up the split between the index and middle finger and eliminate the curl......but that might "bleed over" into her riseball which is her dominant pitch. I am guessing that if she threw a straight peel drop, the middle finger would become more dominant.....but as she is getting a little internal "snap drop" action the index finger takes precedence.

Just as a note of interest, this pitch displayed the red tape right down the middle of the ball as it traveled to the catcher and it did have nice dropping action.....so I guess she makes this grip work for her.

Few questions, Rick....

The grip Sarah uses here is interesting--different from what I would expect. What part of the ball is she putting her middle and index fingers? Look at the 1:50-1:55

Also, what would you say is the last point of skin contact as the ball is released? Index finger? If so, where on the index finger? Or, is it the tips of the index and middle fingers simultaneously?

Further, at the 1:35 mark, it appears that her index finger is curled somewhat, but at release it appears to be almost squared behind the middle of the ball relative to the direction that index finger is traveling. Insight?

 

[CoachScott]

Thanks Rick that was great and helps alot. I believe I got it or at least understand better. I just found out that my 'brush interference' is not there. My wrist is approx 4" out from the thigh. Could be that 12 pack I carry around with me . It's consistant though. Thanks again Rick I really enjoyed the video

Thanks also to Ken, I really like that dot idea.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Good questions Doug. These pics should answer them.
If I were starting from scratch I think I would try to change a few things about her dropball grip. As you noted, the index finger is split and has a slight curl to it.....I am pretty sure this is "bleed-over" from her riseball grip. Note that the middle finger is on the red tape which is centered perpendicular across the four seams.
In the second pic' at release it is the index finger that is last off the ball....preceded closely by the middle finger.

Starting over I would try to narrow up the split between the index and middle finger and eliminate the curl......but that might "bleed over" into her riseball which is her dominant pitch. I am guessing that if she threw a straight peel drop, the middle finger would become more dominant.....but as she is getting a little internal "snap drop" action the index finger takes precedence.

Just as a note of interest, this pitch displayed the red tape right down the middle of the ball as it traveled to the catcher and it did have nice dropping action.....so I guess she makes this grip work for her.


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FANTASTIC RESPONSE!!! At least it was for me! I'm trying to teach middle finger on the tape (we have black electrician tape on the balls) and index finger a little closer to the middle finger than what Sarah's doing. It makes me feel good to know that you agree with that.

Further, I find those two pictures, particularly the one on the right, VERY HELPFUL!

For me, this last post of yours was on my top ten list of best pitching posts on this site.

 

[Doug Romrell]

I forgot to mention that I assume the middle finger just barely loses contact with the ball prior to the index finger, no?

 

[Doug Romrell]

Good questions Doug. These pics should answer them.
If I were starting from scratch I think I would try to change a few things about her dropball grip. As you noted, the index finger is split and has a slight curl to it.....I am pretty sure this is "bleed-over" from her riseball grip. Note that the middle finger is on the red tape which is centered perpendicular across the four seams.
In the second pic' at release it is the index finger that is last off the ball....preceded closely by the middle finger.

Starting over I would try to narrow up the split between the index and middle finger and eliminate the curl......but that might "bleed over" into her riseball which is her dominant pitch. I am guessing that if she threw a straight peel drop, the middle finger would become more dominant.....but as she is getting a little internal "snap drop" action the index finger takes precedence.

Just as a note of interest, this pitch displayed the red tape right down the middle of the ball as it traveled to the catcher and it did have nice dropping action.....so I guess she makes this grip work for her.


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Sorry for the additional inquiry...

First, in the picture on the left, it appears that she's using a three finger grip, as the ring finger seems to be there in a position to be the third finger in this grip. Wouldn't it be more out of the way if it were a true two-finger grip??

Secondly, even though her middle finger is in-line with the red tape in the left picture, in the right picture it seems as though that curved index finger ends up turning the ball some so that the index finger is very nearly perpendicular to the red tape. Can you explain what's really happening? What's the rotation? That is, catching for her on this pitch would you see the ball rotating with a smooth red line with a rotation like boardmember often shows?

 

[Rick Pauly]

The answer is yes. If I didn't have this clip at 600 fps I'm not sure there would be enough clarity to see the difference in which finger releases last.

I forgot to mention that I assume the middle finger just barely loses contact with the ball prior to the index finger, no?