Opinions on attacking the lead elbow

[FiveFrameSwing]

Very nice Wellphyt.

The further you keep the arms away from the body, the more ‘free’ they will be … more ‘free’, in terms of being ‘less connected’ … ‘free’ in terms of promoting the powering of the swing with the ‘arms’ … exactly what we don’t want to do. Having the arms close to the body promotes ‘connection’. When people speak of performing “connected swings”, and then speak of the arms being more ‘free’, they are in a sense speaking of contrasting objectives.

To some extent … conflicting goals need to be ironed out. SL’s drill, as demonstrated, was a drill in which he was attempting to demonstrate “connection”, while at the same time moving the upper body in a way that bypassed the fusion points to establish connection, and at the same time had the elbows displaced widely from the body so as to promote an “unconnected” swing at normal speeds. In a sense, it looked to be a desire to have both a “connected” and “unconnected” swing at the same time … something which doesn’t add up … and something that no one has yet to produce a video of happening in a real game swing. IMO, it wasn’t a well thought out goal. Not that it that was stupid mind you … I certainly respect the viewpoint of optimizing athletic movement, but when it contradicts with the Hanson Principle then it needs to be questioned and likely abandoned.

 

[theaddition]

Very nice Wellphyt.

The further you keep the arms away from the body, the more ‘free’ they will be … more ‘free’, in terms of being ‘less connected’ … ‘free’ in terms of promoting the powering of the swing with the ‘arms’ … exactly what we don’t want to do. Having the arms close to the body promotes ‘connection’. When people speak of performing “connected swings”, and then speak of the arms being more ‘free’, they are in a sense speaking of contrasting objectives.

To some extent … conflicting goals need to be ironed out. SL’s drill, as demonstrated, was a drill in which he was attempting to demonstrate “connection”, while at the same time moving the upper body in a way that bypassed the fusion points to establish connection, and at the same time had the elbows displaced widely from the body so as to promote an “unconnected” swing at normal speeds. In a sense, it looked to be a desire to have both a “connected” and “unconnected” swing at the same time … something which doesn’t add up … and something that no one has yet to produce a video of happening in a real game swing. IMO, it wasn’t a well thought out goal. Not that it that was stupid mind you … I certainly respect the viewpoint of optimizing athletic movement, but when it contradicts with the Hanson Principle then it needs to be questioned and likely abandoned.

You are wrong on this one FFS.
It's not what the happens in the bigs.
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This is the Hanson principle in action.

BD

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

You are wrong on this one FFS.
It's not what the happens in the bigs.
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This is the Hanson principle in action.

BD

BD ... if you break it down, I believe you'll see that elbow displacement from the body is largely a function of pitch location. I believe it was you (it may be someone else), that spoke of releasing angles based on pitch location. You do not purposely displace the elbow far away from the body to be strong ... you instead release in a manner that has the elbow further displaced for an outside pitch.

 

[theaddition]

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More often than not, the elbow does not "connect physically" to the body, regardless of the pitch location.
The reason, you can't start the swing by tucking the elbow to the side.
It doesn't happen. The swing starts by "attacking Oppo" and adjusting from that point.
You just can't attack oppo by tucking the elbow.
I said tucking not slotting. There is a difference.



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BD

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here is Megan on an inside and outside pitch. Take note that the rear elbow is much closer to her body for an inside pitch versus an outside pitch.

The displacement of the elbow from the body is, or should be, a strong function of pitch location. This is one of the significant factors in terms of adjusting to pitch location.

This is ONE of the reasons why having a goal of a perfectly vertical rear forearm, with the accompanying wide displacement of the rear elbow from the body, is a hurtful idea (hurtful in terms of degrading swing mechanics) ... because it inhibits a hitter's inside/outside adjustability.

 

[theaddition]

BD ... if you break it down, I believe you'll see that elbow displacement from the body is largely a function of pitch location. I believe it was you (it may be someone else), that spoke of releasing angles based on pitch location. You do not purposely displace the elbow far away from the body to be strong ... you instead release in a manner that has the elbow further displaced for an outside pitch.

Not true.
And
I don't think I spoke of releasing anything.
I also didn't say the back elbow doesn't displace further away from the body.
I said the back elbow, a lot more times than not, does not physically connect to the torso.
It is not physically attached to the body, regardless of pitch location.
You need to Hanson principle this.

BD

 

[theaddition]

Here is Megan on an inside and outside pitch. Take note that the rear elbow is much closer to her body than for an outside pitch.

The displacement of the elbow from the body is, or should be, a strong function of pitch location. This is one of the significant factors in terms of adjusting to pitch location.

This is ONE of the reasons why having a goal of a perfectly vertical rear forearm, with the accompanying wide displacement of the rear elbow from the body, is a hurtful idea (hurtful in terms of degrading swing mechanics) ... because it inhibits a hitter's inside/outside adjustability.

Back elbow is not attached in the clips.
My point is:
do not attach the back elbow to the body.
It is a weak position to it from.

The displacement of the elbow from the body is, or should be, a strong function of pitch location. This is one of the significant factors in terms of adjusting to pitch location.

Yes.
But i all stems from "attack Oppo".

BD

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Not true.
And
I don't think I spoke of releasing anything.
I also didn't say the back elbow doesn't displace further away from the body.
I said the back elbow, a lot more times than not, does not physically connect to the torso.
It is not physically attached to the body, regardless of pitch location.
You need to Hanson principle this.

BD

I'm not understanding the issue BD. You seem to be advocating that the rear elbow is not physically connected to the torso. I agree with that. When I speak of 'fusion', I'm not speaking of the elbow being fused to the torso ... read my recent post at BBD on that topic. If you would ... please point out to me where you feel I've spoke of the rear elbow being physically fixed to the body ... because from my way of thinking that would also curb adjustability.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Back elbow is not attached in the clips.
My point is:
do not attach the back elbow to the body.
It is a weak position to it from.

Is someone disputing this point? I'm actually saying that the rear elbow displacement is a function of pitch location. If it was fixed to the body, then how could it adjust?

Yes.
But i all stems from "attack Oppo". HI people know the concept.

One way to view this concept is that the swing starts the same way every time. There is more of course, and it contributes to the initial barrel path and then how adjustment is made. Despite that ... the theory doesn't contradict the rear elbow being displaced from the body as a function of pitch location.

 

[theaddition]

My mistake.
I thought you were and advocate of the body parts being close and connected.
I know there are a lot of people who insist on "get that damn elbow up against the torso".
I was talking to one last night.

He was a "you gotta lean over more" to hit the outside pitch.
I showed him Laflippin's channel.
He still doesn't but into the arms/hands make the adjustment reasoning.
He heard what he wanted to hear.


BD