Opinions from Experienced Dads needed.

[Izzy's Dad]

My 12 year old daughter throws her fastball, change-up, and drop ball in games (effectively). She is working on her screw and curve.

Now, I have a friend who I respect very much, who's daughter is on a full ride D1 pitching scholarship. I take (and ask) for his advice on various aspects of pitching. His college daughter even comes and helps out in team practices from time to time. His 13 year old daughter plays on my daughters team (not a pitcher ----yet ).

One thing he has said is, do not worry or work on any of the other pitches except the 3 that she is throwing effectively now. Don't work on the screw, curve, rise, etc. because once they go to college, they are going to have them throw these pitches the way they want them to, and will have to "un-learn" the way they are throwing them. So, is he right? Hard to argue with a D1 dad.

BTW, I know college is the dream, and high school is the reality. But, I feel as a dad, I have to look at the long term. What daughter does now at 12, will affect her at 16, 18, and 21 years of age.

 

[Mark H]

Well you could just quit practicing till college since they are going to change everything. Seriously, every college coach is different and college is a long time from now. Get as good as you can academically and athletically and worry about college pitching coaches when the time comes.

 

[Coach Stan]

As a once college pitching coach I have to agree with MH. Another aspect to think about is if she only throws 3 pitches and does not develop the other pitches will that make her competitive enough to get into college. Good luck.

 

[Izzy's Dad]

Speed, speed, and more speed. This is what seems to get the attention. For example, the freshman pitcher (sophmore this season) for Mizzou. Extremely fast. Higher than average, that's for sure, especially for a freshman. Been told that when Coach Earlywine clocked her, instantly had 10 or so other coaches clock her, and had offers on the spot.

If you've watched her pitch, thats all she really has is speed.

 

[Mark H]

To get noticed, that's true. To win, add spin and command to that speed. And a change.

 

[3'sDad]

If the picher has a great drop and a killer change in addition to the fastball, she should get lots of attention at the next levels up....adding one additional movement pitch (either horizonatl or vertical movement) that she commands and great grades and SAT/ACT scores may get DD some financial support if she chooses to play collegiately.

 

[calgofo]

My 12 year old daughter throws her fastball, change-up, and drop ball in games (effectively). She is working on her screw and curve.

Now, I have a friend who I respect very much, who's daughter is on a full ride D1 pitching scholarship. I take (and ask) for his advice on various aspects of pitching. His college daughter even comes and helps out in team practices from time to time. His 13 year old daughter plays on my daughters team (not a pitcher ----yet ).

One thing he has said is, do not worry or work on any of the other pitches except the 3 that she is throwing effectively now. Don't work on the screw, curve, rise, etc. because once they go to college, they are going to have them throw these pitches the way they want them to, and will have to "un-learn" the way they are throwing them. So, is he right? Hard to argue with a D1 dad.
BTW, I know college is the dream, and high school is the reality. But, I feel as a dad, I have to look at the long term. What daughter does now at 12, will affect her at 16, 18, and 21 years of age.

Have her go through pitches so she has a variety to choose from to gain a relative mastery of.

"D1 dad" has no special relevance. ive known several who were about as sharp as cotton balls. College coaches are all different, unless d1 dad has multiple daughters playing at multiple schools his knowledge of college coaching is n=1.

You are correct that what your daughter does now will make a difference down the road but keep an I on the now more than on the future.

 

[calgofo]

Speed, speed, and more speed. This is what seems to get the attention. For example, the freshman pitcher (sophmore this season) for Mizzou. Extremely fast. Higher than average, that's for sure, especially for a freshman. Been told that when Coach Earlywine clocked her, instantly had 10 or so other coaches clock her, and had offers on the spot.

If you've watched her pitch, thats all she really has is speed.

True speed has its place but speed by itself will only take you so far. Cat Osterman coming out of HS needed a pretty good tailwind to go over 60. She has done relatively well.

 

[sluggers]

Izzy: The guy you were talking to is right, but you have to understand the context of what he is saying.

What is consistently effective in softball is the vertical movement pitches. That is, good pitchers must have a killer drop or a rise to be effective. A killer rise or drop breaks more than a foot. E.g., a killer drop is waist high about 20 feet from the plate, and then will hit the back of the plate.

What I see happening over and over again is that pitchers get a mediocre drop or rise, and then start working on another pitch instead of perfecting the pitch they have. Most DDs and Daddies lack the patience and discipline to work for the months it takes to perfect a rise or drop. So, the pitchers end up with a so-so pitch, and then start working on the next pitch.

A so-so drop or so-so rise is OK against HS hitters, but worthless against college hitters. In college, the hitters work as much on the hitting as pitcher do on pitching. So, good hitters will shred a pitcher with mediocre pitches.

"Pure" curve balls and "pure" screw balls are not worth the time it takes to develop them. In baseball, the curve or screw ends with a drop at the end of the pitch. If the ball doesn't drop, it is called either a "hanging curve" and also a "home run". In softball, you can't get a curve or screw to drop. So, every pure curve in softball is a "hanging curve".

Pitchers do learn to make the ball move left to right or right to left. Then, they will throw a rise, fastball, or drop and then put a little extra spin on the ball to move it left to right or right to left.

Osterman is the only pitcher I've seen that has booth a killer rise and a killer drop, which is why she is so successful with a below-average pitching speed. Abbott and Finch have great rises, but poor drops.

My DD was an all-conference D1 pitcher. She had a killer drop, which IMHO was as good as Osterman's. My DD did not have a rise. Her rise ball was simply a high fast ball. She didn't throw a changeup, but she changed speeds with her drop. She could move the ball left to right or right to left. She cruised at 62 MPH, with one time max of 67 MPH.

Ray

 

[sjsss]

There is normally too much emphasis on learning new pitches instead of patiently perfecting one that is already in the inventory. Of course, at some point your daughter needs to add pitches, and waiting until college is not a reasonable course of action. I spend as much as a year teaching the drop, for example before moving on to another pitch. The student’s success determines when it is time to move on.

Having said that, I understand that the college pitcher’s dad could have been speaking from frustration. In my daughter’s case, her college coach recruited her because of her rise, drop and change. Within the first few weeks of freshman fall practice, the coach decided that her change up, which had been extremely effective, needed to be totally changed. Long story short, she pitched four years without a change up. Her rise was constantly tinkered with to the point where she went from being an all conference D1 pitcher her freshman and sophomore years to being very average by the time she was a senior. Maybe this dad’s daughter had a similar experience and was expressing frustration born of that experience.

Now, to the arguments against screwball/curveballs. While pitches that change planes are preferable, the success of the screwball in particular in recent College World Series has made everyone step back and rethink. I coach a 6A high school team where my two very average pitchers do not have a decent drop, much less a rise. They both throw curves and screwballs, flat but on the spot. They have both recorded wins over the best teams in the state and between them have an ERA of less than a run. In 55 games there were two home runs hit off of screwballs and two off of curves. My point? Yes, teach the drop as an absolute essential pitch. Work on the rise (I have taught many the rise over the years, but am convinced that there are some students who will never master it, no matter what I do or anyone else does or teaches). The screw and curve should not be totally neglected, just because they are not as desirable as a legitimate rise ball. They can help make a young pitcher successful.

“In softball, you can't get a curve or screw to drop. So, every pure curve in softball is a "hanging curve"

Curveballs can certainly drop. One of my students is being recruited by a D1 coach who likes how her curve drops. She was taught to throw it that way. Taken together with her drop that tails in, she makes a very desirable package. Do curves that are flat get hit out? Yes, of course. I think that I have seen more college home runs hit off of flat rise balls, though.