Need Help From IR Experts?

[Madsofball]

Ok Folks--First, I want to say I continue to learn a ton from this site. I haven't posted in quite a while, but I read regularly and am truly thankful for those that contribute.

My apologies in advance for what might be a long post. I will TRY to make a long story short.

My DD is 14. She has been relatively successful as a #1 pitcher on quality travel teams. She is in the 8th and the high school coach has taken an interesting her and is having her come to off season workouts with the varsity girls even though she won't be playing until spring of 2016. Having said that, he recently strongly suggested that she start going to a PC that he has a lengthy relationship with. This PC's daughter recently finished a successful mid-major D1 career and is largely considered one of the better pitchers to have played in our state. She and her Dad trained exclusively at Club K in Nashville, TN.

My DD had been going to a PC since she was 8. He does not teach IR, but he has been fairly open to understanding some of the things I've learned here and at least not "coaching" the IR things out of her. Anyway, I relented and agreed to have DD try this new PC who the high coach "suggested". Keep in mind I realize that letting the high school coach dictate a move like this is an issue in and of itself...but it's complicated

So here is my question...we have been to this new (very expensive) coach 4x. His number one goal (he has spent the 35 minutes each lesson) working on a drill with DD where she is in the open position has her start with palm down at 3 o'clock working the arm down thru 6 o'clock to a palm up position at 9 o'clock. The goal being to create "true fastball spin". He alternates between using a spinner and a ball. Obviously, he wants the spinner to spin completely "upright".

I need the experts to help me reconcile this drill/focus with IR. It is outside the realm of how my DD and I have been focused for the last two years. I'm trying to allow for the fact that I'm just missing the point. Can anyone help me get my brain around this? Please?

 

[BoardMember]

Tell this super expensive high quality PC that you want to film him throwing a full pitch using the motion in the drill he teaches so you and DD can reference it as a reminder.

Then show him what he looks like on film in slo mo. He'll spend the next 2 weeks trying to figure out how to make it work, then change it 4 times before he drops it all together. Trust me, you'll be doing him and all his students a big favor.

 

[BoardMember]

Or take the spinner and face it Palm up behind at 9:00 and show him how she can make it spin forward starting from that position. He'll be dumb founded and ask you for lessons.....

 

[Madsofball]

Guys, thanks for the responses. I really am struggling with what to do. Not because I don't know what I SHOULD do, but more because I was really hoping to avoid this confrontation. It is easy enough to just go back to what we were doing. I'm hopeful that the high school coach is competitive enough that he will play who gives him the best chance to win when that time comes.

I think what I am struggling with is that I can't eloquently discuss IR so that THEY understand it. My DD & I muddle through and keep working until we figure it out. But these guys are convinced that they know the RIGHT way. Unfortunately, they are also VERY PROUD of their accomplishments (meaning accomplishments of his DD). The funny part is I have seen her pitch and she actually throws with IR.

One more question: on a scale of 1-10 (with 10 being huge problem) how big of a problem is it that my DD predominant fastball spin is bullet spin or leans a bit toward screwball spin?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

 

[MK37]

Or take the spinner and face it Palm up behind at 9:00 and show him how she can make it spin forward starting from that position. He'll be dumb founded and ask you for lessons.....

DD is 14 as well and our TB club has brought in a D1 pitcher to work with our pitchers. The first week she pulls out the spinners and I'm thinking this ought to be fun. DD has never used a spinner before. It took her maybe three throws to get nice tight forward spin starting with palm up at 9:00. We haven't been asked for lessons yet. However her TB coach told me today that DD has a very relax effortless delivery when she pitches.

 

[Madsofball]

The HS coach should not put you and your DD in this position. If you don't like the instruction, kindly say No, you have an instructor and you want to go back to avoid confusion--your DD is not even on the team yet. Also this is the dad "PC" of the successful pitcher, not the pitcher herself. I don't think those are enough qualifications. I can also tell this lack of qualifications from what you wrote that this "PC" has not asked or focused on what your DD wants to accomplish or even what perhaps the HS coach wants the pitcher to have in her toolbox to prepare for HS (in (4 sessions and that much time on that drill).

If the team coach already wants her to work out with the team, then nothing will be lost. It is your $$ and the HS coach cannot tell you how to spend it. Just to be safe document what you did and said, what the HS coach did and said, and check the rules for your state and district for even whether this all is allowed. For example, we have recruiting rules and can't bring in younger players to practice with us, and I am glad this is so.

However, it is easy to make the spin the coach wants with your DD's motion, but that is not the point. Personally I played with those spinners at a seminar I attended and said, those don't accomplish squat.

PS. As a coach, I don't care for bullet spin, but off kilter spin is fine on the FB. We want the pitcher to through movement instead, anyway.

Thank you...and you are absolutely correct. I have verified our state high school rules and we are okay from that standpoint. I do appreciate the feedback. I think I just needed to vent a little and make sure I was being reasonable. I think there was a part of me that agreed to the change out of fear which is likely not even reasonable. If DD continues to work as she has been with the same internal motivation I think everything will play out fine even if we are viewed as "bucking the system".

My main objective is to give her every opportunity. She is very motivated and I want to help give her every opportunity to fully realize her potential and the fruit of her hard work. There are times I wish I knew more, but I will say this site is such a valuable resource.

Thanks again...

 

[javasource]

This is like going into a relationship knowing that there are some things that you just can't live with... but your winning personality will change those traits over time... during which you exhaust effort in someone that doesn't want to change... or want your help. It's humanitarian... so I commend you for that, but you should be going to them for help, not the other way around.

 

[Madsofball]

This is like going into a relationship knowing that there are some things that you just can't live with... but your winning personality will change those traits over time... during which you exhaust effort in someone that doesn't want to change... or want your help. It's humanitarian... so I commend you for that, but you should be going to them for help, not the other way around.

Great analogy...that explains everything! My wife of 18 years will tell you I SUCK at relationships

 

[BoardMember]

PS. As a coach, I don't care for bullet spin, but off kilter spin is fine on the FB. We want the pitcher to through movement instead, anyway.

"Off Kilter Spin"? Is that one one of them "highly technical" terms we're trying to get away from here on DFP? Or is that one on the "safe list" and "tilted axis" is to complicated for your brain.

sheesh......

 

[Boomers2012]

Mads, i am not a pitching coach nor am I an expert on the inner-workings of certain types of spins on the softball but I can tell ya one thing......if your DD has been a successful pitcher on a competitive travel team with her current mechanics, then I wouldnt mess with them just because a high school coach recommends an expensive pitching coach. Also, just because someone charges a high rate for lessons doesnt mean they are worth it. If this were my DD, I would tell the high school coach that she doesnt need a new pitching coach and if not going to him/her will affect playing time then perhaps the AD may need to be involved. I have always taken the stance of "if it aint broke, dont fix it." Good luck.