My DD lost her 4 seam spin after a bike crash

[BrianTx01]

sorry, then something is wrong if that's the case. There should not be a difference in speed if the mechanics are the same. If the pitcher is doing one of those crazy peel drops like pulling her hand back and up at release (incorrectly thinking that will give more spin) then I could see the pitch being slower. But thrown correctly there should not be a difference in speed, it's all about release point. Again, this is assuming the mechanics are sound, the spin is correct, and the ball is released at the right release point.

My DD peel drop is the same speed as her fastball.

 

[ArmWhip]

sorry, then something is wrong if that's the case. There should not be a difference in speed if the mechanics are the same. If the pitcher is doing one of those crazy peel drops like pulling her hand back and up at release (incorrectly thinking that will give more spin) then I could see the pitch being slower. But thrown correctly there should not be a difference in speed, it's all about release point. Again, this is assuming the mechanics are sound, the spin is correct, and the ball is released at the right release point.

Rapsodo's statistics collected at the WCWS show that you are right about the speed but it also shows that fastball spin direction varies considerably and is not always 12-6. Drops have considerably more "drop", in some cases twice as much as fastballs. Fastballs also have higher spin rates in general and more variation in horizontal and vertical movement. Since Rapsodo does not measure actual break but computes it based on ball path, RPM and spin axis the variation in the fastball numbers (hoizontal and vertical break) means that spin direction varies a lot from pitcher to pitcher at the WCWS and is not always 12-6.

https://rapsodo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/College-Softball-Pitching-Guide.pdf

 

[nightskiier]

As the OP - I know we’ve strayed away from my original ask - but I want to say thanks for the all the replies. My DD is resting up for a bit and just doing some drills for just now and no pitching.

She is reading all the replies and is learning a lot from the discussion in the thread. It’s definitely keeping her motivated to find her grip again. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lance Steckler]

here's my thoughts. #1 is to get hitters out. #2 deception and getting them off balance / time is crucial.

If your pitcher can throw a 'fastball' with good spin and location and it moves, that's a good thing. Now if she can slightly change her step length, and head position and the same looking pitch drops significantly further, that's even better. Regardless of the pitch names. 12-6 spin and ball ball movement are both good things.

 

[Hillhouse]

My DD peel drop is the same speed as her fastball.

Then what is the purpose of both? Why have 2 different pitches that are essentially the same? I will NEVER understand why someone, as you described has the same speed on both, would choose a "fastball" that doesn't move over a dropball that does move. I simply cannot understand this logic. Make every pitch move.

 

[Hillhouse]

Rapsodo's statistics collected at the WCWS show that you are right about the speed but it also shows that fastball spin direction varies considerably and is not always 12-6. Drops have considerably more "drop", in some cases twice as much as fastballs. Fastballs also have higher spin rates in general and more variation in horizontal and vertical movement. Since Rapsodo does not measure actual break but computes it based on ball path, RPM and spin axis the variation in the fastball numbers (hoizontal and vertical break) means that spin direction varies a lot from pitcher to pitcher at the WCWS and is not always 12-6.

https://rapsodo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/College-Softball-Pitching-Guide.pdf

Here's my problem with your stats and info: I don't believe the geniuses at ESPN know what 1/2 the pitches actually are when they are thrown. So I think the numbers are skewed. Anything that hits the ground "2 time Olympic Gold Medalist Michele Smith" goes on to tell you was an amazing dropball, instead of maybe just saying that one got away from her, it slipped, or whatever.. It's always characterized as a pitch. I would be willing to take the Pepsi challenge on this: how many ladies pitching in the WCWS actually throw a "fastball"? The answer is not many if any at all. Throwing pitches (fastballs) that do not move, at that level of play, with the bats and balls being used, small strikezones implemented by NCAA, would make that suicide for a pitcher. I can tell you this from my experience of throwing BP to D1 players, both Mid-Major level and Power 5 hitters.

 

[BrianTx01]

Then what is the purpose of both? Why have 2 different pitches that are essentially the same? I will NEVER understand why someone, as you described has the same speed on both, would choose a "fastball" that doesn't move over a dropball that does move. I simply cannot understand this logic. Make every pitch move.

I agree with you about making the ball move. As far a my DD is concerned the drop ball goes out of the strike zone...it is a chase pitch. Her fastball doesn't go straight either. It either curves or screws depending which side of the plate it is on but it does catch the corners of the plate. This really wasn't something that was taught to her...it just happened.

I am definitely not an expert like you are. I am just trying to decode the info I get from pitching coaches and what I read here. It just seems like many here would say that her fastball is broken and because it doesn't spin 12-6.

Right now she can blow her fastball by most 12U hitters at around 55 mph. I just don't want this to be a short run for her. She is faster than most pitchers her age (she is actually still 11) and I assume she will get faster, but if I had a nickel for everytime I heard whispers of "she is going to get blown up in 14U" I wouldn't have to go to work today. I am just trying my best to keep that from happening.

 

[Lance Steckler]

Then what is the purpose of both? Why have 2 different pitches that are essentially the same? I will NEVER understand why someone, as you described has the same speed on both, would choose a "fastball" that doesn't move over a dropball that does move. I simply cannot understand this logic. Make every pitch move.

question for you - if pitcher can throw 2 (or more) pitches that look the same to the batter, until they don't, is that good? Regardless of the name of the pitches.

Example, pitcher A throws ~57mph, her 'fastball' has good 12-6 spin, and moves down say 6''. Same pitcher can shorten her stride and adjust head position and throw a 57 mph 'drop' and it breaks down say 10''.

 

[Hillhouse]

question for you - if pitcher can throw 2 (or more) pitches that look the same to the batter, until they don't, is that good? Regardless of the name of the pitches.

Example, pitcher A throws ~57mph, her 'fastball' has good 12-6 spin, and moves down say 6''. Same pitcher can shorten her stride and adjust head position and throw a 57 mph 'drop' and it breaks down say 10''.

That's a trick question Lance. You said look the same to the batter than you just said she "can shorten her stride and adjust head position" that's not 2 pitches that look the same to the batter. Moreover, the pitcher is risking throwing herself out of rhythm by changing how and where she steps for each individual pitch. Would anyone ever suggest an MLB pitcher change or alter his mechanics, stride, or anything else for different pitches? Of course not. Great mechanics comes with repetition. Repetition can't happen if they are constantly changing what they do.

 

[Lance Steckler]

That's a trick question Lance. You said look the same to the batter than you just said she "can shorten her stride and adjust head position" that's not 2 pitches that look the same to the batter. Moreover, the pitcher is risking throwing herself out of rhythm by changing how and where she steps for each individual pitch. Would anyone ever suggest an MLB pitcher change or alter his mechanics, stride, or anything else for different pitches? Of course not. Great mechanics comes with repetition. Repetition can't happen if they are constantly changing what they do.

fair point on mechanics.