Lots of angry Tennesseans.

[GOINGDEEP]

If you have prayers before football games at public universities, how do you decide who gives the prayer? Do you rotate among different faiths and religions? Do you reference Jesus Christ? Or Allah? Or do you base it on the majority religion?

Most game prayers are very basic, nondenominational. Our college prayer would be something like.........

"We come together to pray for healthy bodies and clear minds, watch over these young men and keep them safe, ( depending on a home or away game ) watch over ______ so they/we may have a safe passage home"

That's pretty basic. When some hear of these "prayers", I think they are under the impression it's 60 mins of religious devotional services trying to recruit. They couldn't be more wrong.

 

[BobInMadison]

I thought we already had this discussion earlier this month.

For my opinions on the subject, please refer to my earlier postings.

 

[Jojo]

Public/ 3rd party perception...

Yes, I would assume you'd need a 3rd party decision or school decision. Like they do for regular banners.

Back in my day banners were meant to be hurtful in a playful sort of way. Pluck the Ducks, Explode the Minors, Trample the Trojans, Wrangle the Mustangs.

Heck in my day, no one would even think twice about, "Scalp the Indians".

Now that we are in a "Non-bullying" society, banners like this I assume will be a thing of the past.
With religion being more involved in the media and actions of violence through religion being reported around the world, religion opens the door to allow for bullying in a way that makes people afraid to address it, since religion in this country is still a very sensitive issue.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Most game prayers are very basic, nondenominational. Our college prayer would be something like.........

"We come together to pray for healthy bodies and clear minds, watch over these young men and keep them safe, ( depending on a home or away game ) watch over ______ so they/we may have a safe passage home"

That's pretty basic. When some hear of these "prayers", I think they are under the impression it's 60 mins of religious devotional services trying to recruit. They couldn't be more wrong.

From a legal standpoint, the question is whether it is appropriate for a pubic institution to engage in anything that even presumes that God exists. A prayer makes that presumption. That's where groups of atheists are going to make their case. They will say, 'You believe in God. We don't. A public institution should remain neutral on the issue.'' It's up to the courts to decide.

I agree w/ your other post about the role of coaches in molding character and being a mentor, etc. It's a fine line. Years back, UGA's cheerleading coach was fired because of having prayer meetings with cheerleaders at her house. A Jewish girl complained, and the coach was dismissed because she'd been warned against it. The cheer coach said that she was no different than UGA's football coach, Mark Richt, who is very vocal about his religious beliefs. It's not easy to walk that line in a public setting between a Christian mentor and a mentor that happens to be Christian.

 

[CoogansBluff]

I thought we already had this discussion earlier this month.

For my opinions on the subject, please refer to my earlier postings.

I think that famous thread got half-nuked in the change to a new server. Maybe for the better.

Prayer circles in softball are different than public prayers before football games at public schools because one is private and the other is public, IMO. In football games, it's a question of whether a school has a right to plan a prayer. It's a legal issue. In travel softball games, which are private events, it's more of an question of what's best for your team, and managing any players and families that might object, being considerate, that sort of thing.

 

[Momo'sDad]

From a legal standpoint, the question is whether it is appropriate for a pubic institution to engage in anything that even presumes that God exists. A prayer makes that presumption.

While common, that's a pretty limited worldview, CB. I have no problem with meditating on my place in the world while others engage in group prayer where they give praise and thanks to their deity(ies). I'm also comfortable thanking the universe - something *I* did not create - for the bounty I'm able to enjoy at mealtime. I do not, however, ask to be granted favor in business or anything else. I consider everything I've been given to be blessings, things which I personally choose define as that which I've received, yet did not earn. There are many atheists/anti-theists/anti-theologists who pray in some form or another and who recognize everyone else's right to do the same.

I agree w/ your other post about the role of coaches in molding character and being a mentor, etc. It's a fine line. Years back, UGA's cheerleading coach was fired because of having prayer meetings with cheerleaders at her house. A Jewish girl complained, and the coach was dismissed because she'd been warned against it. The cheer coach said that she was no different than UGA's football coach, Mark Richt, who is very vocal about his religious beliefs. It's not easy to walk that line in a public setting between a Christian mentor and a mentor that happens to be Christian.

The case involving Dabo Swinney, head football coach at Clemson, also bears watching. Clemson is a public university, but I've argued that there ought to be some allowance for local community standards to determine the permissibility of proselytizing in one's role as a government employee. Surely if 100% of South Carolina taxpayers have a shared faith with the university's football coach, it would be hard to imagine that South Carolinians would have a problem with his statements and actions. But what if the number is only 95% or some much lower number? I've listened to Coach Swinney speak several times and while he is a very intelligent man, it's my observation that he lacks the general self-awareness to understand why the promotion - as opposed to merely sharing - of his personal faith might not be as wonderful a thing as he considers it to be, which speaks to your point about the difficulty so many have in being a mentor who just happens to be of a particular faith.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

From a legal standpoint, the question is whether it is appropriate for a pubic institution to engage in anything that even presumes that God exists. A prayer makes that presumption. That's where groups of atheists are going to make their case. They will say, 'You believe in God. We don't. A public institution should remain neutral on the issue.'' It's up to the courts to decide.

I agree w/ your other post about the role of coaches in molding character and being a mentor, etc. It's a fine line. Years back, UGA's cheerleading coach was fired because of having prayer meetings with cheerleaders at her house. A Jewish girl complained, and the coach was dismissed because she'd been warned against it. The cheer coach said that she was no different than UGA's football coach, Mark Richt, who is very vocal about his religious beliefs. It's not easy to walk that line in a public setting between a Christian mentor and a mentor that happens to be Christian.

We pray at our public school, before football games, here in the big town of 6000 residents. Curious on how all this works, I called our " town" lawyer. Here is his take, hope I retained the info correctly.

A public school can't officially permit athletic prayers. But they get around it by not officially banning prayer.

A coach cannot lead the prayer.

The school cannot appoint someone to lead the prayer.

The school cannot ask a student to lead the prayer.

Students can voluntarily lead team prayers, as long as they didn't ask permission of the school.

 

[Out in Left Field]

I am so glad we don't have to deal with any of this; no one thinks of it, no one does it, and no one is fighting over it. In any case, God does not take sides, in war or sports. Just ask Lincoln.