Lexi Davis

[Spartans21]

Any thoughts on these mechanics? Does she have no overlap at all? And if so does she have a lot of untapped velocity in her? I believe she is in the mid 60's now. She is a naturally big kid, 6'2"......

 

[mothgirl]

I agree I don't see the overlap but she looks like she gets a good lean and drive off the rubber?


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[JAD]

She has a big frame and based on her size I would expect her to be throwing upper 60s touching 70, but she cruises in the low 60s and may hit 65 on occasion. She is a drop ball pitcher and relies on her defense to make outs for her. I watched the WCWS game against Florida yesterday, and she was struggling to throw strikes and was pitching from behind almost every batter. I think the Auburn pitchers walked the lead off batter in all of the extra innings. That is playing with fire and sooner or later you are going to get burned. The winning run was a walk that moved to 2nd on a wild pitch, then scored on a bloop single to LF with 2 outs.

 

[mothgirl]

Overlap, if by that you mean a backswing, does not create velocity. It is for a feel of momentum the pitcher likes and for a certain timing they like. How does delaying or making your arm go up against the arm circle create velocity?

Overlap is not simply a backswing, it's the weight shift and your timing of it. It's like a hitter when they separate, before they load. I'm not very good at explaining, but I'm surprised that you haven't already read up on it? BM has some great posts on it, Java does a great job of explaining it in his videos on the two step and pushback drills. I'm surprised as much as you post here and how much your opposed to the two step drill that you haven't actually taken the time to watch the video or really read why it is supposed to help. When I first came to this site I read everything I could with an open mind, really trying to learn all I could about pitching, I wish more people would take the time to learn. I'm still reading and learning everyday. I think when we stop learning and start thinking we know everything is when people stop listening. It's not just you I'm sorry for picking your post to pick on you about it, I've heard a couple big posters on here giving their opinions on why their way is better then the other way when they haven't even read or tried the other way! Sorry end rant!


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[mothgirl]

Uh, I grew up in FP. No men use a backswing, or overlap, and they have fine timing and velocity. We are simply not going to make the kid use a backswing for the drill if they don't have one (about 40 percent don't), or use long-winded explanations with them or buzz words or code words, as new ones come in every decade.

Simply, as you can see under pressure, the more moving parts a motion has, the more likely it goes awry, whether it is walks, poor spin, or inconsistent velocity. At lower levels, the pressure the WCWS ladies feel is coming in every week in HS or TB. They have to learn to pitch in a short amount of time, and they need to be able to respond to it. They HAVE to learn while playing games. They don't often have the support they need, so the pitchers today need to use their own minds, their own natural motions/ideas, and it has to make sense to them, NOT ME.

The proof is in how the pitch ends up (velocity, spin the curve to the backdoor, etc. whatever the goal is). Then they can work from that.

You kinda just proved my point again, that some people will staunchly argue for or against something that they don't know much about. I mean, how can you say that no men use overlap if you don't know what overlap is? ...Just sayin.
Those long winded explanations are my favorite! The more I can learn the better I can help! Also it's just really interesting to me! And those long winded explanations, not so long winded when your talking about college students, or even HS. Your right the kids have to learn it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't learn all I can about it, I may be able to provide that one cue word or piece of advice that can help them meet their goal a little bit faster or easier.


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[JAD]

Uh, I grew up in FP. No men use a backswing, or overlap, and they have fine timing and velocity. We are simply not going to make the kid use a backswing for the drill if they don't have one (about 40 percent don't), or use long-winded explanations with them or buzz words or code words, as new ones come in every decade.

I do not think it is a good idea to compare the pitching motion of a man vs. a woman. Males have more upper body strength and can throw much harder using their arms and upper body strength. A woman needs to use her legs to maximize her potential. I think Lexi Davis would benefit from a back swing and driving her drag foot into her plant calf vs. "bowling" which is what she does now. She is going to be a senior next season, so I doubt you will see much change in her pitching motion before she graduates. Corey Myers is the pitching coach at Auburn and I am not sure what he is advocating.

 

[Hillhouse]

JAD

I don't think I could disagree more with your statements regarding males vs. females. Just because males have more upper body strength in most cases doesn't mean they are pitching with safe and sound mechanics. And I am not sure what you're talking about in saying a woman needs to use her legs to maximize potential. That is true regardless of the pitcher's gender. It's funny how so many people are appalled at the "leaping" and "crow hopping" that takes place in men's fastpitch (do a Google search of Adam Folkard, for example who is the top pitcher in the world) and tell me he's not maximizing his legs. That's what leaping and crow hopping is... massive use of the legs. And while it's not legal in ASA and NCAA girls softball (YET!) the time is coming when it will be. ISF has had the brains to open up the pitching rules for women, allowing the leap so it won't be long until other's follow suit in the USA. Especially when the USA is the ONLY country in the entire world that uses different pitching rules than the ISF, other countries are going to see their pitching taken to new heights pretty darn quick. And then USA/ASA will have to play catch up. Under different circumstances, ASA/USA let men's fastpitch slip away from them... putting all their money and resources into the women's program and look at the results. Can you name a single man on the US men's team? Probably not. Look at the USA website... take a look at the "tours" scheduled for the USA women this year... then look at the men's. Prior to the last ISF World tournament, the USA women did a nationwide tour, went to Europe, went to Japan, had multiple training camps, etc. etc. Prior to the last ISF Men's world, they had funding (barely) for a single camp... even though the world tournament was played in New Zealand in March (during our winter). There was 1 camp for the team to meet, play some ball, etc. And if I'm not mistaken, that came was in January. So, they went to the camp in Jan... home to the snow for 2 months, then to NZ without having seen each other or trained together since. But I digress...

JAD, if male pitching is about upper body strength then I clearly didn't get that memo. Don't tell anyone my secret here but, I'm not exactly big in the upper body. I take huge issue with this assertion that men's pitching is about strength and women use their legs/hips more. Personally, I don't think there could be anything further from the truth.

Bill

 

[abbygale]

To me it seems like her chest goes before her shoulders so there is stretch there. In my book that is overlap, maybe not the easiest or most effective way to generate it. But I think she is getting some in her upper body.

 

[mothgirl]

To me it seems like her chest goes before her shoulders so there is stretch there. In my book that is overlap, maybe not the easiest or most effective way to generate it. But I think she is getting some in her upper body.

Thanks for pointing that out, I was thinking that also. She does get a pretty good lean forward into her pitch. I don't see her hips fire forward like I do some of the other good pitchers. I love that this is not a cookie cutter sport! So many different body types and pitching styles, and they are all getting it done in their own way, gives me hope that my dd could actually make it to college ball with success.


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[WillyT812]

Looking at the multitude of pitchers and their "styles" in the WCWS it's obvious to the trained and untrained eye there is no cookie cutter approach or model to building the optimal pitcher. Small girls, huge girls, drop ball pitchers, CU pitchers, rise ball pitchers, open to third/not open at all hardly, I even saw a few of those fake elbow snaps here and there. Everyone trying to nip the corners because almost anything hanging over the plate too far is smacked. There are a few absolutes we all adhere to on DFP but in the end, all that matters, is getting outs and going the distance. Florida against Michigan...should be a great battle between a couple of tremendous pitchers.