Keeping the front shoulder IN.
- Thread starter Ade's Dad
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Well, you don't actually KEEP it in. The cue is means to hold the shoulders in line until the hips turn and force the shoulders to move after you have twisted the torso.
Another statement that goes along with that is; "Keep the hands back."
That means to keep the hands at your back shoulder until the shoulder movement forces them to move.
Your goal is to get the body to move the bat, and you move from the ground up. The legs turn the hips while you hold the shoulder in and keep the hands back. This allows the powerful muscles in the legs, hips and middle, to put energy into the bat movement.
Not keeping the shoulder in, is when you use the torso muscles to move the shoulders, before the hips have turned and forced the shoulders to move.
Not keeping the hands back, is when you move the bat with your arms, before the hips and/or shoulders cause them to move.
- Oct 25, 2009
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jbooth, what are some bad results when you swing from top down? Hands first, iow. Or shoulders first to stay on thread subject. Or gate swing, when the shoulders and hips go at the same time.
He doesn't drive with the back knee. The knee bends to keep the head in place while he drives from the rear hip.
Note how long he keeps the front shoulder in, and the hands back.
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He doesn't drive with the back knee. The knee bends to keep the head in place while he drives from the rear hip.
Note how long he keeps the front shoulder in, and the hands back.
Good point, and good video. 'Drive the back knee' is a cue that I hear, so I repeated it. I presume this is another example of telling someone to do something that actually is just the result of doing something else.
You lose huge amounts of potential power.
A good bottom up swing creates force through a kinetic chain that has a cumulative action on forces. The force from the shoulders is added to the force from the hips if you start the hips first and hold the shoulder in. If you start the shoulders first you're essentially only getting the force that you can generate from the moving shoulders.
- Oct 25, 2009
- 3,339
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Can there be an extreme with the hip lead? Not talking spin.
I'm not sure what you mean. In a good swing, the hips turn before anything else moves (except that the arms are flattening the bat, WHILE the hips move.)
How would you describe this by Hall of Famer Frank Robinson (586 HR's);
This is a good example of what "keep the front shoulder in", means. Note the pause where I show the hip shoulder separation. And, note how he keeps his hands back. Note how the bat flattens before it goes rearward, and when.
Note how close the shaft of the bat stays to his shoulder, and how long his top hand stays at the same angle. IMO, he isn't twisting the bat head back and down, with his wrists.
Here's another example by Ted Williams, his hip shoulder separation and movement are almost identical to Robinson's;
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- Oct 25, 2009
- 3,339
- 48
I had some dissenting opinions that the hips opening too early is not good.
I worked with a HS junior this afternoon on the field doing front toss. She is a hands-first batter who has the bat in her ear. She's a good-size athlete.
I had her get her bat back out of her ear during her stride and focus on firing the hips first. She started lighting it up. I then had her start with a narrow stance (Babe Ruth style). Within 20 minutes she had hit two over a 210' fence. Never had hit the fence before.
It's days like this that make it worth it. Now, hopefully, I can use her as an example of what hips first can do.
Thank you, jbooth, I just needed a little confidence boost in what I'm teaching.
I worked with a HS junior this afternoon on the field doing front toss. She is a hands-first batter who has the bat in her ear. She's a good-size athlete.
I had her get her bat back out of her ear during her stride and focus on firing the hips first. She started lighting it up. I then had her start with a narrow stance (Babe Ruth style). Within 20 minutes she had hit two over a 210' fence. Never had hit the fence before.
It's days like this that make it worth it. Now, hopefully, I can use her as an example of what hips first can do.
Thank you, jbooth, I just needed a little confidence boost in what I'm teaching.
Some people confuse pulling the hip out, with starting the hips first, or early.
It IS possible to "pull the hip out too soon", but what is meant by that, is not the same as "leading the swing with the hips."
It's very important to have the front hip turned in when you push from the back. The hip should be starting to rotate as the front foot accepts weight, but you don't want the hips already pretty far open before the front foot lands. THAT, is opening too soon, but is not the same as turning the hips ahead of the shoulders.
