Is this illegal?

[Coachinagin]

I don't have much experience coaching pitchers. Kid on my 14U little league team does this: Brings the hands together (presentation) and as she starts her throwing hand moving back by her side, also takes a step back - off the rubber - with her stride foot. Then does her stride/windmill. I suspect this is not legal, but haven't found a solid reference. Isn't the stride foot supposed to stay on the rubber until the kick-out?

 

[tojo]

I don't have much experience coaching pitchers. Kid on my 14U little league team does this: Brings the hands together (presentation) and as she starts her throwing hand moving back by her side, also takes a step back - off the rubber - with her stride foot. Then does her stride/windmill. I suspect this is not legal, but haven't found a solid reference. Isn't the stride foot supposed to stay on the rubber until the kick-out?

High School rules allow stepping back off the rubber. I am not aware of any other softball associations that allow the step-back. All travel ball associations that I am aware of require both feet in contact with the rubber. You may find the rules posted on the National Federation of High Schools web site.

 

[ctfastpitch]

Can't be certain, but I thought that any step back that may be allowed, must be before the hands come together. Once the pitching motion begins, after the hands come together (presenting the ball), the step must be toward the batter.

 

[Comp]

In high school ball, the pitcher can start with the foot back, or step back prior to the hands coming together but once the hands are together all motion must be forward. ASA is different, both feet must be in contact with the plate at the start of the pitch and no step back is allowed.

 

[FPump]

Same rule for NCAA....no step back allowed.

 

[BretMan]

ASA does allow the pitcher to start with the non-pivot foot off the pitcher's plate and permits a step back...for men's fastpitch! (As an adult male fastpitch player, I see guys do this all the time.) But not for girls.

USSSA allows girls to step back, same as high school. In fact, the U-trip pitching rules are an almost exact word-for-word copy of the high school rules.

NSA is the same as ASA- no backward step for the girls, but it is allowed for the men.

With the dozens of different sanctioning bodies out there, you'll find some that follow one rule, others that follow the other. Little League? I don't have a clue. I have never umpired or witnessed a Little League game in my area. Whatever the answer, it should be addressed in their rule book.

The two main sanctioning bodies that most are familiar with are ASA and NFHS (high school). While most today consider high school rules as the "odd man out" in that they allow the step back, if you go back twenty-plus years you would find that ASA once allowed this too. At the time, it was thought that the game was becoming too pitching dominated and several rule changes were proposed to address that. ASA prohibited the step back for the girls, but high school kept the existing rule. So, it was really ASA that became the "odd man out", while high school kept doing things the same way they always had. Over the years, as new organizations sprung up, they copied the pitching rules of one or the other. Depending on which one they happened to have copied, the step back might be allowed or not. You really need to get ahold of the rule book for whichever sanctioning body your games are played under to know for sure.

 

[ASAPAump]

USSSA allows girls to step back, same as high school. In fact, the U-trip pitching rules are an almost exact word-for-word copy of the high school rules...

...The two main sanctioning bodies that most are familiar with are ASA and NFHS (high school). While most today consider high school rules as the "odd man out" in that they allow the step back, if you go back twenty-plus years you would find that ASA once allowed this too. At the time, it was thought that the game was becoming too pitching dominated and several rule changes were proposed to address that. ASA prohibited the step back for the girls, but high school kept the existing rule. So, it was really ASA that became the "odd man out", while high school kept doing things the same way they always had. Over the years, as new organizations sprung up, they copied the pitching rules of one or the other. Depending on which one they happened to have copied, the step back might be allowed or not. You really need to get ahold of the rule book for whichever sanctioning body your games are played under to know for sure.

Bretman,
The OP stated that the pitcher brings her hands together, THEN takes a step back while bringing her throwing hand down to her side, then begins a forward windmill motion. I thought NFHS allows for a step back PRIOR to bringing the hands together, but not after. Can you please clarify?

 

[BretMan]

Bretman,
The OP stated that the pitcher brings her hands together, THEN takes a step back while bringing her throwing hand down to her side, then begins a forward windmill motion. I thought NFHS allows for a step back PRIOR to bringing the hands together, but not after. Can you please clarify?

Yes, in rule sets where a backward step is allowed, there is a timing issue with when the step is taken, with respect to the hands joining.

NFHS allows stepping back with the non-pivot foot not only PRIOR to the hands joining, but also SIMULTANEOUSLY with the hands being brought together. So, the step backwards may end either before or after the hands touch.

Maybe the OP needs to clarify precisely when these actions are taking place. The OP states that the pitcher was bringing her hands together "and as she starts her throwing hand moving back by her side, also takes a step back". The use of "and" and "also" led me to assume this was a simultaneous action. If these actions are simultaneous, then they would meet the NFHS requirements. If not, then you have a problem.

But the final question asked in the OP wasn't about the timing of those events. The last question asked was, "Isn't the stride foot supposed to stay on the rubber until the kick-out?". The answer to that is "No, it isn't", not in games where a step back is considered legal.

And, again, none of this directly addresses the Little League pitching rules. You're going to have to consult their rule book for that one. Not all sanctioning bodies use the same pitching rules.

 

[jofus13]

I'm not sure about the timing on stepping back in the Little League rules, but I do know that you don't have to start with both feet on the pitcher's plate in Little League, unless they have changed the rule since last season, which I doubt.

 

[shockcoach]

Yes, this is legal in Little League play. I threw my LL rule book away last month so I can't tell you which rule allows it. I'll try to find out.