IR vs Bullet

[JJsqueeze]

So just to be clear, all things equal a ball without movement (bullet spin) will not get hit more often than one with movement. Correct?

I dunno...I used to think so, but EVERY damn RB I see in slo motion in D1 is a bullet spin high fastball. I still have not seen a pitch get the ESPN slo mo treatment and have me look at it and say "wow, nice RB spin". Erin Gabriel and Alexis Osorio did really well with bullet spin riseballs. Several strikeout riseballs were shown in very clear slow motion during the broadcast and they would not spinning backwards at all. I can't be the only pitching fanatic who saw this. I am not at the point of saying that a nice, high, fast pitch with a tight backspin is a myth, but so far every good clip I have seen is at least 90% bullet spin. This goes for clips I have seen of Lawrie, Escobedo, Osorio, Gabriel. I have never seen a good high def slow mo clip of Osterman or Carda or Hawkins or some other known riseballers so I can't comment on them.

edit- I realized i did not actually respond to RBs post, I just sort of went off on the bullet spin riseball tangent....to answer the question, the bullet spin ball will be hit more often that a movement pitch. Unless it is thrown with whatever magic Osario has on her bulletspin RB.

 

[quincy]

Should we ask C. Osterman?

When you throw the ball in the 70s you can have any spin on it you want.

 

[JAD]

Which gets hit harder?

Here is my $0.02
1) A bullet spin pitch will be hit hard more often due to the straight line tracking of the pitch
2) A rise ball, when hit hard, will travel farther due to the rotation of the ball
3) An IR fastball is similar to a peel drop and should not travel as far

 

[Man10]

This spin itself isn't necessarily an indication IR is taking place. Getting inside the ball is the only thing required to produce the 1-7 spin. You'll have to watch her from 9:00 to follow through to ensure she is actually utilizing IR.

Do you mind to check her out? I posted a couple of videos a couple of days ago.
http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/23820-my-dd-video.html

 

[sluggers]

Trying to perfect "bullet spin" is simply a waste of time. Whatever spin the kid ends up with for her fastball is fine--bullet spin, down spin--as long as she can throw it at a high speed and consistently for strikes. Once she gets there, *move on*. She should spend her time working on a "real" down or up pitch where she can make ball break a foot or two.

The question of how hard a pitch "possibly" might be hit is irrelevant. Every pitch thrown can be hit hard enough to go out of the park. It doesn't matter if the ball is going 100MPH or 70MPH as it goes over the fence--they all count the same.

The real issue is how a pitch fits into the overall strategy of pitching an entire game.

A pitcher needs a pitch which she can throw for a strike 99% of the time. If she doesn't have that pitch, she will never get to the mound in any high level game.

The more up spin or down spin a pitcher can put on a ball, the more difficult it is to throw the pitch for a strike. Thus, the "strike" pitch has no substantial movement on the ball. The batters quickly learn the flight path for the "strike" pitch. Whatever that "strike pitch" is, the batters will, by the end of a 7 inning game, be able to smack it.

Thus, what a pitcher has to rely on to get the batters out against good teams is for the pitches to:

(1) Have various locations
(2) Have various speeds
(3) Have various movements.

Everything is relative to the other pitches thrown.

It is the same thing with movement. How much does the breaking pitch move compared to the "strike" pitch? That is what is important.


I used the NASA curveball expert and came up with this data for a 60 MPH fastball. This is the height of the ball when it crosses home plate. All pitches were thrown with the same vertical angle at release.

28RPS rise ball spin: 3'10"
20RPS Rise ball spin: 3'3"
10RPS rise ball spin: 2'6" feet
Bullet spin/no spin: 2' feet
10RPS drop spin: 1'4" feet
20RPS drop spin: 6"
28RPS drop spin: 1"

 

[Ken B]

Read through the IR and IR in the Classroom threads again. Understanding what whip is and how IR contributes to it will help you/her immensely. Feeling all of the technical stuff is critical to understanding it. Try it yourself first before trying to teach it to DD. When you can feel it, it will make it much easier for you to connect/relate with your DD. She may get "it" before you do. Don't be afraid to learn from her thoughts.

 

[corlay]

Trying to perfect "bullet spin" is simply a waste of time.

I agree - but no one is advocating for that, either.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

For what it's worth the curve ball goes the farthest when hit square compared to all other pitches.

 

[Phathead]

DD went thru four game HS stretch getting pounded. Finally ID'ed bullet spin. She was feathering off index. Fixed it she did better. See the thread I started. Bullet spin for her was hitters dream.

 

[Man10]

IR spin, is it over the top spin or under spin?