IR vs Bullet

[JJsqueeze]

To piggy back on what Corlay said. Most girls swing and miss under a pitch. I don't know why, but most misses are under, not over. A bullet spin pitch drops less so that under miss is more frequent. When a pitcher first learns down spin, chances are it is not very high RPS so it helps the batter out by dropping a little and helping contact. With time, they can increase their spin rate and become great groundball pitchers that rarely give up liners or driven fly balls compared to their bullet spinning counterparts, but during that development of getting spin to the high teens or low 20s they get hit pretty well in my experience. In the long run it is well worth it because as hitter develop, that bullet spin ball becomes a HR ball. I know Cat has said her FB is a bullet spin, but i don't think she throws it often if ever. She throws bananas up down and sideways so why would she?

 

[Sweet Lou]

If you can throw bullet spin as a change sure. If that's all you throw hitters can usually adjust pretty quickly.

And I don't believe a proper rise ball is thrown with bullet spin. It should have something close 6-12 backspin (or 5-11, 1-7 whatever notation you want to use). For the record I'm in the camp that a rise ball doesn't actually rise but can be a very damned effective pitch.

Bullet spin is like a spiraling bullet. It doesn't move so you better be able to spot it damn well if you expect to be effective with it.

 

[coach james]

are these anti-riseball sentiments?

Not looking to open that can-o-worms argument about whether a riseball rises, or not.
But for the sake of argument, let's agree that a riseball "drops less" than other pitches,
and so does a bullet-spin ball (maybe drops a little more than a back-spinning riseball does...).

So, if properly used, why can't a bullet-spin ball be effective?
Should we ask C. Osterman? <g>

can o worms opened!.......
riseballs ARE moving whether it be perception or reality. The ball isnt where its supposed to be, according to our brains perception of the 100 thousand other pitches we've seen over our lives.

 

[Man10]

She started when she was 7 and until last week she had a bullet spin and she spots the ball very well but when she misses her spot it does get hit hard. I saw the IR thread and 3 days later she has the 1-7 spin that I'm hoping this means she is now throwing with IR. I asked this because she gave up two hard hits in two innings yesterday (we got rained out) she is a freshman in HS and we are going into our semi regional so I'm wondering now if i should have left well enough alone until after the season or have her go back to bullet, which she told me she used a couple of times to get a couple of Ks yesterday. It stayed higher than the other spin and the girls couldn't catch up to it I guess. Any suggestions? Maybe let her throw both since she can? She does throw harder now that we've been working on IR.

 

[Jojo]

To piggy back on what Corlay said. Most girls swing and miss under a pitch. I don't know why, but most misses are under, not over. A bullet spin pitch drops less so that under miss is more frequent. When a pitcher first learns down spin, chances are it is not very high RPS so it helps the batter out by dropping a little and helping contact. With time, they can increase their spin rate and become great groundball pitchers that rarely give up liners or driven fly balls compared to their bullet spinning counterparts, but during that development of getting spin to the high teens or low 20s they get hit pretty well in my experience. In the long run it is well worth it because as hitter develop, that bullet spin ball becomes a HR ball. I know Cat has said her FB is a bullet spin, but i don't think she throws it often if ever. She throws bananas up down and sideways so why would she?

I know Cat and my DD used the same PC when they were younger, and my DD also threw the bullet spin, and I can tell you how much I hated that pitch. by the time she was 12u I was totally trying to eliminate it out of her arsenal and by 14u we didn't use it at all.

 

[corlay]

I guess my point is: if a young (12U, 14U) pitcher can learn to throw BOTH,
even though a bullet-spin ball is not quite as effective as a properly thrown riseball,
the contrast between a true drop ball spin and bullet spin is enough to mess with batters and will produce plenty of K's.

The bullet-spin could be used like a riseball would, with respect to setting up batters,
and when she eventually learns a proper rise, then she can truly go north-south with batters,
and already have some valuable experience with a "dropping less" pitch.

I think a young pitcher is going to be a LOT more effective throwing a Drop, Bullet, and Change,
vs only "having" a drop and a change. My opinion...

 

[DNeeld]

I saw the IR thread and 3 days later she has the 1-7 spin that I'm hoping this means she is now throwing with IR.

This spin itself isn't necessarily an indication IR is taking place. Getting inside the ball is the only thing required to produce the 1-7 spin. You'll have to watch her from 9:00 to follow through to ensure she is actually utilizing IR.

 

[AUtiger98]

In my opinion, spin has very little to do with how hard the ball is hit. Location and movement are the two most important factors. Phil Niekro didn't have much spin (knuckleball), but he had a lot of movement and a lot of Ks.

If a pitcher keeps the ball low in the zone and works the corners, she can have a lot of success. Add movement to the equation and the pitcher becomes exceptional.

For the record, I'm saying spin does not always equal movement.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I want my pitchers balls to move.

I would rephrase this to "I want my pitchers balls to move relative to where the batter expects it"

Bullet spin only moves with gravity and will most definitely get hit more often and much harder. It's easier to square up on a ball that's not breaking.

It has been my experience that bullet spin WILL get hit further BUT I disagree that it will get hit more often. "Downballers" are a dime-a-dozen pre-18U. Batters expect the ball to break down. Many young bullet-spinners will be the K-pitchers.

 

[riseball]

So just to be clear, all things equal a ball without movement (bullet spin) will not get hit more often than one with movement. Correct?