I find it hard to believe this is true about learning movement pitches.

[Hillhouse]

Whitey is right, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. The funny thing about the "turn over" is, the overwhelming majority of PC's say to step shorter when throwing this pitch. All stepping shorter does, whichever way you choose to throw your drop is help alter the release point. I do not believe one has to step short in order to change the release point. With practice the timing will kick in to maintain a massive explosion off the rubber and still release the ball at the correct point for it to drop. Stepping short, by definition, means there is less of a push off from the rubber which equals less speed. Couple that with not whipping the arm (which I believe generates the spin) is a recipe for the pitch to be slower. And, again in my opinion, not backed by science just my own experience... the spin RPM's won't be as high.

Bill

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Some excellent comments from Bill in this thread.

Some that I especially like ....

the arm whipping from elbow to fingers as is a fastball

A strong whip of the elbow which translates down through the wrist and fingers for no speed loss.

The magic happens when you stop "TRYING" too make it drop and whip it like you're throwing as hard as possible with the right release point.

whipping follow through which is necessary to get maximum speed.

And when my drop didn't go down, I fixed it by whipping my elbow more and creating more spin that way so it didn't happen again.

 

[riseball]

If a pitcher throws a FB with 12 - 6 rotation and another pitcher throws a drop with 12 - 6 rotation. How do you tell which one is throwing the FB and which one is throwing the drop? Do they not both get their fingers behind the ball and come over the top? How then are they not the same pitch? Seems like two different paths to the same destination. Call it what you will and throw it however, outside of the context of what you do prior to release it the same thing.

 

[riseball]

...Also, the MLB curve ball is much more slower than the MLB fastball. I researched it, and according to the attached article, the MLB curveball is 14.2 MPH slower than the curveball . And the range varied from 20.4 MPH to 8.8MPH.

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2...ity-gap-between-offspeed-pitches-and-fastball...

Not sure you can draw any meaningful conclusion from this information. You are making the assumption that the intent of the pitcher is to throw the curve with the same velocity as their fastball. Which begs the question why would any pitcher want to have 2 pitches with the exact same velocity? While I agree that mechanically it is possible for a baseball pitcher to throw a FB with greater velocity compared to a curve, the MLB data is not really applicable.

 

[shaker1]

It seems that few college pitchers have any movement. Most of them throw hard and have excellent control. As far as movement...not so much.

True statement as far as I have found.

Movement pitches are hard thing to find. The past 2 WCWS I've watched all I could to find different spins and movement. The most movement I have found is with offspeed and the drop. That said, even the good drops seem to be offspeed, 60ish.

 

[sluggers]

After reading FFS comments, I realize that my DD was a fraud...I'm packing all her awards for pitching up and sending them back. I'll have to sneak into her house and get the rest of the awards (including that shameful "All Conference" plaque) while she is sleeping.



(And I've got another box of this stuff in the garage somewhere...)

 

[sluggers]

If a pitcher throws a FB with 12 - 6 rotation and another pitcher throws a drop with 12 - 6 rotation. How do you tell which one is throwing the FB and which one is throwing the drop? Do they not both get their fingers behind the ball and come over the top? How then are they not the same pitch? Seems like two different paths to the same destination. Call it what you will and throw it however, outside of the context of what you do prior to release it the same thing.

Good point...

The real difference is the RPS between the FB and the DB.

The RevFire stats from a few years back had most kids were throwing a drop with 17RPS or less. However, there were 10 kids throwing the drop at 24RPS or higher. On an absolute scale, the kids throwing with 24RPS had more break than the 17RPS. (My DD's drops were in the 25RPS+ range).

 

[Hillhouse]

After reading FFS comments, I realize that my DD was a fraud...I'm packing all her awards for pitching up and sending them back. I'll have to sneak into her house and get the rest of the awards (including that shameful "All Conference" plaque) while she is sleeping.

View attachment 13056

(And I've got another box of this stuff in the garage somewhere...)

Come on Ray, you're better than this.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

After reading FFS comments, I realize that my DD was a fraud...I'm packing all her awards for pitching up and sending them back. I'll have to sneak into her house and get the rest of the awards (including that shameful "All Conference" plaque) while she is sleeping.

View attachment 13056

(And I've got another box of this stuff in the garage somewhere...)

Well, Finch was seen to be teaching "hello elbow" ... and even preaching that a riseball jumps out of the zone ... and you won't see her giving away some of her top trophies. Not at all uncommon for someone to believe in a falsehood and make it high in this sport ... but the question is, what could they have achieved had they believed in reality?

 

[sluggers]

Well, Finch was seen to be teaching "hello elbow" ... and even preaching that a riseball jumps out of the zone ... and you won't see her giving away some of her top trophies. Not at all uncommon for someone to believe in a falsehood and make it high in this sport ... but the question is, what could they have achieved had they believed in reality?

That is not the way they think. They don't care "why" something works. They don't know how it works. They do it because it makes them better.

Playing sports is Darwinism. Kids who get batters out rise to the top. The others don't. The ones who are "good" do things that work. The good ones don't look at scatter plots and read "The Physics of Baseball" in their spare time. They go out to the mound and do what works.

The reason Pauly, Osterman and Finch threw the rollover is because *IT WORKED*. My DD got four (well, five really) of college paid for because she threw the rollover.

If you want your kid to throw the drop as her go to pitch, then throw the rollover.