How to use the wrists

[Fastpitch Trainer]

MTS:

The issue with the drill you use above to fix torso, is that by placing the bat on the rear shoulder, the hitter is trying to power the swing with an East/West rotation of this shoulder. This tells the hitter that the barrel can't get there unless the rear shoulder works in this manner.

I do a lot of work with hitters to eliminate their notion to use the the back shoulder as source of power.

I think a hitter views the drill as:
1. My bat is on my back shoulder
2. So my bat will get there if my back shoulder gets there on time

You have to have some sort of stretch reflex take place in order to get the torso to respond in the swing. A players separation should make this happen, so if the torso isn't working, then you need to check a players sequence, rather than force them to just use the torso to power the swing. Not many kids are going to be able to feel that and understand that.

AMY:

The dog launcher tool is great, I believe this teaches release very well. I'm with MarkH on the skipping the rock idea. I know Don stresses this, however, to me this encourages the idea that the back elbow will lead the top hand. Watch your Bustos and A-Rod clips in RVP, the best hitters in the world keep the knob of the bat in front of the back elbow during the swing. By using the rock skipping technique, I believe you teach a player to drag, and use the back elbow and top hand differently than they act during the swing.

The player in the clip above represents one of the most flawed parts of the female swing, the back elbow getting to the hip with the top hand lagging behind. Rock skipping indicates nice loose muscles in the back arm, however, in most female athletes the forearm/wrist strength that is required to keep the knob in front of the back elbow, and maintain the flex in the wrist and a good bat angle forces them to be "FIRM" with the back arm prior to release, not just a whipping motion, that skipping a rock would create from start to finish.

 

[RayR]

MTS:

The issue with the drill you use above to fix torso, is that by placing the bat on the rear shoulder, the hitter is trying to power the swing with an East/West rotation of this shoulder. This tells the hitter that the barrel can't get there unless the rear shoulder works in this manner.

I do a lot of work with hitters to eliminate their notion to use the the back shoulder as source of power.

I think a hitter views the drill as:
1. My bat is on my back shoulder
2. So my bat will get there if my back shoulder gets there on time

You have to have some sort of stretch reflex take place in order to get the torso to respond in the swing. A players separation should make this happen, so if the torso isn't working, then you need to check a players sequence, rather than force them to just use the torso to power the swing. Not many kids are going to be able to feel that and understand that.

This is not an end all drill. I have many players (pretty much all) that have some sort of bat drag issue. This drill just gets the player to link the barrel to the torso. Takes the arms out of the equation for a while. We then get the bat off the shoulder and see if anything has been learned. It's about creating a constraint to force a change in movement.

I am much more about scap action as opposed to separation.

What I see is a total lack of identification by most players on how to use the upper part of their torso independently of the rest of torso.

All I can say is that the players that accept these drills, improve.

 

[Fastpitch Trainer]

To me, the torso is the ultimate "effect" of what the lower and upper body do. This area only becomes powerful during the swing if

A.) the lower body goes into rotation
B.) the upper body reaches its ideal position at the time the foot touches

If (A) doesn't happen, then there will still be some "slack" in the torso as you remain square. If (B) happens early and a player can't hold their upper body position, there is the return of slack through the torso. If (B) happens early, and a player can hold their upper body position, you will lose the explosive capability that takes place when the body is in motion and instantly changes directions.

If (A) and (B) happen at the same time, then you are in a position where if you've done the proper amount of work with both the upper and lower body, you are in great position to be successful. That's where teaching really takes place, helping a player get to their hitting position, in balance (not weight distribution, but balance of work between the upper/lower body) with timing.

My point being, torso isolation is difficult, becuase the upper body and lower body are the cause of what the torso ultimately does during the swing.

When I want to teach what is necessary to use the torso, I go into my Open/Close Drill, where we simply exaggerate the opening of the hips (from a closed position) and the closing of the shoulders (from an open position).

 

[RayR]

Do I agree that the upper and lower torso should work "against" eachother initially? Yes, as long as the goal is not to create two separate turns.

If (A) doesn't happen, then there will still be some "slack" in the torso as you remain square

I think I get what you are driving at. X factor stretch? Offset of shoulders vs hips?

Sure. I agree. But, I also see the separation thing taken too far and you end up 2 independent turns because I don't believe all X factor stretches are created equally.

A player can create the offset without understanding how to connect the two parts and ends up with the 2 independent turns. Mostly a result of too vertical of a posture. It's easy to get separation if the body is long.

Here's a player who knows how to connect the two parts.

But, if you have a player that still wants to swing with the arms and can't figure out how to connect the bat to the rotation of the torso - the drill I showed above works wonders. Believe it...or not.

 

[Fastpitch Trainer]

MTS,

Yes, you have to keep the athlete in mind you are working with. What I see in the drill though, is a Top/Down swing. She is making her torso respond to the shoulders starting the swing, which is a dangerous habit to start.

My point in all of this being, you say this is a drill where you teach the players to use the torso to get the bat to the ball, but the video you are using shows a girl who is using her shoulders to get the bat there on time.

So I guess my question is, the way you run this drill, is she doing what you want her to, or is this a bad example of what you are actually going for?

I just don't see the torso doing the work, I'm focused on that rear shoulder that directs the bat through the zone.

I think for the person you put this drill up for, it might help them understand if this is what you want it to look like, or if there are some improvements you would like to see in an ideal situation.

 

[RayR]

MTS,

Yes, you have to keep the athlete in mind you are working with. What I see in the drill though, is a Top/Down swing. She is making her torso respond to the shoulders starting the swing, which is a dangerous habit to start.

Maybe.

But, if she was using her shoulders as you say she would have pulled off the swing. And she clearly hasn't. A shoulder dominated swing is dominated by first move of the rear shoulder dropping. Once this happens there is no other way to get the bat around. This player is making a first move with the scaps.

Keep in mind that the shoulders are a connection point for the arms to the scaps. So, you see the shoulders turning/yanking - I see the scaps in action. I see freedom of movement of the upper torso.

Her shoulders are relaxed which allows the scaps the freedom of movement they need. And the scap movement is what creates a tight radius for the upper torso to rotate without pulling off the ball.

What is the main difference in these players?

They are both powering the swing with the shoulders. You can see this in how they drop the back shoulder to get the swing started. Kind of the opposite in golf where as the over the top move signals a shoulder dominated swing.

So, you may worry about a top down swing with the drill I shared but I am looking the player to figure out how to get some movement out of the scaps and to link the bat to this movement.

Then we can go forward.

 

[CoachKevin]

3 totally different swings in the vids you posted. Seems like the first two have the players using the squish the bug to initiate the rotation, and the 1st clip looks like the knob of the bat and hands to the ball. The 3rd clip is what I would consider a pretty good swing. Upon heel drop the hips start rotating, rotation on a stiff front leg, and point of contact has the back elbow in the slot and in the power L. Weight transfer seems good as she is coming onto her back toe.

 

[Fastpitch Trainer]

3rd kid is actually getting a good stretch of the knee extensors on the back leg, 1st 2 kids aren't using lower half at all.

3rd kid would look really good, if she were able to delay the hand/shoulder movement, to where she got to her furthest point back a little later. Gets too vertical for my taste as she prepares to swing. Some great parts to the swing though. AND that looks like a nice riding lawn mower.

MTS,

The first kid is clearly coming across that ball. She is doing so becuase she's trying to get the back shoulder to come through the zone (East/West), to direct the bat. I didn't say East/West to get IN the zone, East/West as she should be releasing. Call it shoulders, scaps arms or whatever you want, it's not the action you want in the zone. She continues to over rotate even as the video comes to an end.

I agree that there is "some" power to be generated by getting the back shoulder down, however, she doesn't leave it down to stay on plane, therefore she continues to hook around that ball and hit it into the 1B on deck circle.

There is no release of the angle that she has created here, since there is no release, the back shoulder continues to rotate and power the swing when release should take place.

What I'm saying is, the East/West gets her in trouble when she should be releasing. I know you're trying to feel scap action, however, when it's time to release, then release and do what needs to happen in the swing. She is trying to power the ENTIRE swing with the shoulders, not just the necessary parts.

 

[RayR]

While I agree the first swing is not perfect draw a line from the elbow of the front arm through the bat at contact. It is pretty nearly straight. Straighter then the other 2 swings. She is squaring the ball up better then the other 2.

Here is the history I have with these hitters

Hitter #1 using this drill went from hitting 180 to 360 with multiple extra base hits. Never had a problem of hooking balls. In fact, a lot of big hits were to LC. Used the whole field. She did not keep the bat against her shoulder in games, FWIW.

Hitter #2 sees a private instructor using the famous front elbow drive swing and while at times hits OK, strikes out way too much. In this clip she is trying the same drill as hitter 1 because in her normal swings her back elbow gets way ahead causing bat drag and wicked long swing. Draw a line from her front elbow through the bat at contact and she is the worst of the three.

Hitter #3 is only 13 and is my daughter. She still hasn't figured out what hitter #1 has about the freedom of the scaps. She turns OK, but turns past the ball at contact. Draw a line from her front elbow through the bat and the arm is slightly ahead. Reason for this is she using her shoulders too much, IMO.

Neither of three what I would consider good pelvic action in these swings, but these swings were not working on it.

But, of the three, hitter 1 demonstrates the best use of the upper body with regards of getting the barrel to contact in line.



I am not sure what you would consider a good alignment at contact, but I use clips as ones below as a reference. If there is not a straight line from the elbow through the bat something is amiss regardless of pitch location.

And whether these players understand what is happening or not they have the ability to use their scaps effectively to get into this contact position

One motto I use with the players is: In line is on time.

 

[Fastpitch Trainer]

Here is one of the 13-year old kids that plays on my team. Notice, the work of the shoulders is done prior to contact, and through the hitting zone. We use our shoulders as our GPS, to get on plane, and we try and release the angle we've got on the ball.