Hitting coaches' philosophy beyond hitting mechanics

[RayR]

In throwing - the fact that girls have their athleticism bled out of them early is a big reason why they throw like they do....girls growing up playing baseball first before transitioning to softball throw just fine....Hodge's material on throwing is good stuff....how many girls are taught to get the ball in the "L" position and then stepping to throw....no wonder why they land stiff legged....and develop shoulder issues that they come to believe are normal....

 

[SBFAMILY]

MTS and PEPPERS. Agree we have found out the same thing about kids that play baseball then softball. My dd's team had a player that had only played baseball till she was 16. She had the best arm on our team.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I’m no Howard or Bustos, but I do care about the kids I try and help, not only that the kids have success on the ball field, but are as safe as possible in the mechanics they use.

Peppers, you aren’t alone with that notion … I’d like to believe that everyone here cares about the kids … that is why we take the time to post & read on such forums.

Same question to you ....

Do you teach different swing mechanics between boys & girls? If so, what are they?

Earlier in your post you gave the impression that there was a baseball coach that was teaching the same swing mechanics that you advocate ... which isn't uncommon, as many believe the swing mechanics between boys & girls should be quite similar. You later write that you promote mechanics that are as "safe as possible" .... Are these "safe as possible" swing mechanics different than what you would teach between boys & girls ... and if so, what is are those different swing mechanics?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

In throwing - the fact that girls have their athleticism bled out of them early is a big reason why they throw like they do....girls growing up playing baseball first before transitioning to softball throw just fine....Hodge's material on throwing is good stuff....how many girls are taught to get the ball in the "L" position and then stepping to throw....no wonder why they land stiff legged....and develop shoulder issues that they come to believe are normal....

I agree with this. Some of the throws that I have seen are so hateful that they look to be taught .... and from someone that was basically repeating what they saw taught elsewhere and ignoring the Hanson Principle. And I see this in both young boys & girls.

 

[SBFAMILY]

SBF ... so far you haven't given an example of swing mechanics being different for females versus males. You didn't seem to like the notion of seeking dynamic balance in the legs when in one's stance ... yet you have given virtually identical advice, but without the explanation of seeking dynamic balance. I followed up with a video clip showing how dynamic balance can be established ... do you feel it is harmful for females to establish dynamic balance in their batting stance ... or is it more the case that females should do this, and that they should also condition their bodies, which is what the studies have basically concluded.

The first thing we teach is balance. Bending at the waist first and softening the knees next in that sequence. It is termed sequential core loading by some and hip hinge angle by others. To test for it simply have the student bend at the waist first and allow the knees to move more towards the toes. To test for it simply push on the back and chest alternately to feel if they are balanced. Then have them soften the knees first and bend at the waist and you will push them off balance as it only works one way.

The female has a lower center of gravity than a male. The female lands up to five times her weight when she jumps and lands and a male lands two and half time their weight. So would a female and male look the same during their stance? Most male coaches that do not understand the differences in the spine of the female verses male try to force the female to stand taller. The spine is more vertical in the female and the male spine is tilted forward. The females center of gravity is also lower. The spine being more vertical allows the female to balance the load of the baby during pregnancy.

Lets look at the glutes for a moment. The glutes do not fire the knees, ACL in a female and they term the movement as more like a ball joint action. The males glutes fire upon jumping or landing automatically and the action is referred as working like a hinge.

This is why we teach throwing first so the female can be taught when they throw they must land on the ball of the foot on a flexed knee.

Notice also that the turning of the hips is a little different in that the hips are larger or more radius as to turning. The space between their legs is also wider. They can feel this by simply putting their hand on a wall and bracing themselves so they can lift their leg up. Then have them take the knee cap and turn towards the pitcher and the thighs will touch. Then have them start the knee cap as RH hitter towards where the second baseman normally plays and it will feel stronger. Most Asian women can bring the knee more towards the pitcher without a problem like Jen Yee does.

Dynamic balance can be felt as when they put their feet together have them stride side ways as if fielding a ground ball between their legs and then have them turn more on the inside of the feet to feel eversion.

The carrying angle of most females is four to ten degrees and presents issues as to clearing the body and breast size and thickness of the chest cavity is unique to each person as the shoulders are narrower and the hips being wider. They can not keep the elbow tucked in as tightly as a male.

female golfers tend to have left shoulder discomfort and lower back pain as a result of carrying angle.

By nature the female is upper body dominate so balance is very important as to weight shift. Also the ACL is at risk due to the hamstring to quad differences as the hamstring is the main stabilizer for the ACL. This is why the PEP program at Santa Monica Sports Med is so important as it focuses on balance and strengthening the hamstring muscles.

Listen to any woman come down a set of stairs and listen to how hard they land verses a male and ask why?

Why do girls throw like girls? As we explain we want them to throw like an athlete.

Are the swing mechanics similar? Most would agree. We think it is how you teach them as to understanding the strengths and body differences.

Dr. David Marshall of Children's Hospital Atlanta feels the neuro muscular skills develop earlier in boys than girls and cites examples of boys throwing rocks, running up and down hills and uneven surfaces at a younger age than girls as a possible reason.

 

[Wellphyt]

Does anyone know of any studies showing the percentage of fastpitch players who tear their ACL while hitting?

The reason I ask is because every time I read an article on increased ACL injuries in women, the articles are typically not conclusive and refer to women running, jumping and cutting differently than men. For instance here is a quote from one of the articles linked to in this thread.

"Women may be more prone to non-contact ACL injuries because they run and cut sharply in a more erect posture than men, and bend their knees less when landing from a jump."

Notice the words "May be". Notice the activities they are referring to. Hitters don't typically run, cut or jump in the batter's box. Just wondering if there is any documented proof that ACL injuries are an issue for women when hitting? Or, do most ACL injuries in fastpitch occur playing defense or running the bases?

Did Jenny Topping's first ACL tear in 1999 happen in the batter's box?

 

[softballphreak]

For example, if I teach bend at the hips first, then soften the knees, is it necessary to go into all the details of why?

Being aware of anatomical differences is essential to who, the instructor? Or is it essential to both instructor and student?

My point is that as long as I'm aware of why I teach what I teach, and what could sometimes be factors in how or what I teach, I don't believe I have to teach anatomy. I don't really want to go into a lot of minute details of why I want Sally to do what Sam comes by naturally. The objective is the same.

There are already many details that need to be taught to learn how to throw and hit without getting into the science of why. Just not enough time. I don't know any teams that regularly schedule 4-hour practices. And if they do there may be studies that say after blank amount of time girls stop learning. May be even shorter for boys.

When we are doing plyo box drills we teach the girls to land softly (use their muscles instead of gravity). I see boys being taught the same thing.

An earlier post mentioned that one of the best players on a team was that way because she played baseball with the boys in her earlier years. I'd be willing to bet that no one discussed the differences in her anatomy as it related to baseball.

 

[Wellphyt]

I think it's a given that most hitting instructors will want to see the student swing before they do anything. Many will video the swing and go over the video with the student.

I typically start off by asking simple questions. I try to use a lot of "why do you do that?" questions. "Why do you hold your hands up so high?" "Why do you start with your weight on your back foot in your stance?" "Can you unwind something that has never been wound?"

I try to get them to think about hitting in a logical manner. I want them to know "why" and not just "how". I spend a good bit of time getting them to do stuff incorrectly so they can better understand how certain movements can upset balance and alter the barrel path.

My basic philosophy is that if a player is willing to learn the science that goes into hitting a ball, they will be able to self correct and tweak their swing as needed, and will be less dependent on someone else for their success.

Yee and Cochran are two players that come to mind who have put a good deal of time into studying the science that goes into hitting. Both physical and mental. The best student IMO is one who enjoys talking hitting.

 

[softballphreak]

I think it's a given that most hitting instructors will want to see the student swing before they do anything. Many will video the swing and go over the video with the student.

I typically start off by asking simple questions. I try to use a lot of "why do you do that?" questions. "Why do you hold your hands up so high?" "Why do you start with your weight on your back foot in your stance?" "Can you unwind something that has never been wound?"

I try to get them to think about hitting in a logical manner. I want them to know "why" and not just "how". I spend a good bit of time getting them to do stuff incorrectly so they can better understand how certain movements can upset balance and alter the barrel path.

My basic philosophy is that if a player is willing to learn the science that goes into hitting a ball, they will be able to self correct and tweak their swing as needed, and will be less dependent on someone else for their success.

Yee and Cochran are two players that come to mind who have put a good deal of time into studying the science that goes into hitting. Both physical and mental. The best student IMO is one who enjoys talking hitting.

Now that kind of science IS essential! That's the science of the game. The science I was referring to was the medical science. There is probably a better word for it, but they are two different animals.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Does anyone know of any studies showing the percentage of fastpitch players who tear their ACL while hitting?

The reason I ask is because every time I read an article on increased ACL injuries in women, the articles are typically not conclusive and refer to women running, jumping and cutting differently than men. For instance here is a quote from one of the articles linked to in this thread.

"Women may be more prone to non-contact ACL injuries because they run and cut sharply in a more erect posture than men, and bend their knees less when landing from a jump."

Notice the words "May be". Notice the activities they are referring to. Hitters don't typically run, cut or jump in the batter's box. Just wondering if there is any documented proof that ACL injuries are an issue for women when hitting? Or, do most ACL injuries in fastpitch occur playing defense or running the bases?

Did Jenny Topping's first ACL tear in 1999 happen in the batter's box?

Does it really matter? Knowing that young girls/ladies/women are at more risk than their male counterparts, doesn't it make sense to re-think how we teach athletic movements that potentially put strain on the knee? 9 months ago my DD did her ACL landing after jumping in VB practice. 3 weeks ago, her SB team mate did her ACL running in a straight line midway between 1B and 2B. I suspect in both cases that were contributing factors that weakened the ACL prior to the blow out. IMO, a high-level BB swing is the objective for both BB and SB players - we just may need to teach it slightly differently in recognition that there are inherent anatomical differences.