Help (with video) please

[KneeHighSocks]

Coaching your own kid is tough!
But, there are volumes of comments on here to suggest that you not put all your faith in the pitching coach. she needs to make some improvements in her mechanics, but changes are very difficult to make at full speed, if you are pitching for real...if there is too much emphasis on the results. Put up a net, put up a tarp...have her throw into that and focus on the drills and techniques available in the brush/IR & drive mechanics threads. Slow it down...feel it. Understand that in the middle of making changes the end result of any particular pitch will probably be bad...and frustrating...it cannot be about balls and strikes and speed. Put her in front of a net and learn to do it right...over and over...3 or 4 months from now you can start to worry about controlling things better. Trying to change her motion on Thursday and having her pitch in a game on Saturday will just not work.

Her PC is actually really great. Has a lot of successful D1 commits and teaches IR. He's awesome. It's just due to our schedules we can't get in a lot during the active season. And since she does pitching 2x a week with her team, and one day at home, I'm just there for all of it. She's young so I have to be the one that reminds her of stuff. this is the hard part. We have a net with tarp at home. We work on stuff all the time. But you are correct it takes months. Sometimes she looks great "at the net" and then in games/full pitch, its back to her old habits

From what I can see, she looks pretty good through 12:00. When she gets to about 11:00, however, her arm seems to straighten out. From that point it all acts as a single piece coming down so that by the time she gets to release there's no ability to whip. There should be a bend in the elbow all the way through the back side of the circle, with the ball trailing. Once the upper arm decelerates (when it is pointed straight down) the lower half of the arm should go whipping by. Because the arm is already straight she ends up pushing the ball through the release zone.

Have her work on some of Boardmember's drills, starting with the one where the upper arm is pressed against her side and she just takes the lower arm back and then throws. I believe it's called "Lock it in." She needs to get the feel for what whip is like. Have her work her way back to 12:00, and then to a full arm circle so she can feel the loose elbow and whip.

The other technical thing I see is that the back leg pretty much stops moving by the time she gets to 11:00. So she's likely just stretching her front leg out rather than driving her whole body forward. She's basically leaving her back side behind as she throws. She needs to get her torso moving forward as part of the push off so it's not dragging her down.

As for things feeling different, by definition that's what happens when you make a change. She's out of her comfort zone most likely. You need to tell her things will feel a little odd until she replaces old habits with new ones. More practice on her own might help with that.

If you have a pitching coach, and he/she is teaching the right things, then let the PC do the teaching. You just sit back on the bucket and offer encouragement. I can't tell you how many times parents have told me they've told their daughters the same things I'm saying and gotten nothing but grief. But I say it and they're all over it. Most of the time it's easier to hear corrections from someone who isn't a parent. No matter how carefully you try to say things, it often gets interpreted as criticism rather than help. From an outsider it sounds like help. One of the joys of parenthood.

yes to all of this. you are spot on. luckily we are headed into winter and will get some really solid pitching coach time in over the next few months

I'm no expert either but from one mom to the next I feel like she looks really good up until 9:00 - then she starts to get behind the ball and pushes it down the circle into release. The bend forward and collapse of the landing leg I feel is due to the pushing/bowling motion. If it were my dd I'd work on upper body whip with the IR drills. Lots of repetition leading with elbow. I like her drive. When my dd was her age we used a pool noodle held at forehead height to get her to keep her weight back - it helped a ton with the bend. Good luck!

Yes this is what I am noticing as well We do work on the IR drills. I have boardmembers videos pulled up on the ipad. We will go through the drills. she seems to get it. looks like she is getting it. then goes into full pitch and lock her arm again :-(

 

[Doug Romrell]

From what I can see, she looks pretty good through 12:00.

Exactly what I thought when watching the clip.

 

[KneeHighSocks]

Exactly what I thought when watching the clip.

thanks Doug. And I know you've helped DD in the past, we worked on some of the things you suggested. then she slips up somewhere else (sigh)

 

[Classof2020]

I know you don't want to hear this because I was right where you are at this age but if you want to really change the motion you need to not have her pitching in games right now. I know it sucks. That's the fun part. We love seeing our girls in the circle doing their thing and having fun. But she needs to be working on Boardmembers drills - 9:00, Lock-it In and Show it and Throw it. I would also throw in some push backs to help strengthen that front leg at the end and learn to keep her weight back. Don't worry about location and if she can throw anything remotely close to a strike with the I/R right now you just need about 5,000-10,000 reps of that arm bent and that ball staying on top longer on the back side. We tried to do what you're doing and keep playing and it took us 2 years to get where we are now and probably would have gotten here in 6 months if we'd just focused on one style instead of drilling one way and then going out and pitching full motion and she'd immediately go back to her muscle memory at full motion. And my DD would probably be better now than she is if we'd really just quit and started over instead of half starting over for 18 months before we committed. Maybe other people have had better luck changing mid course - I know Java had a whole thing about working on things during full motion - but that might be different than full motion IN GAMES. Where your focus is on the batter and not on your motion.

 

[go4fpsb]

DD is doing some weird stuff. At some point this Fall we stared really concentrating on IR and spin. Then her mechanics started to get a little sloppy. I see things. I try to get her to tweak stuff and she just gets frustrated with me. She will
Say she doesn't understand what I'm asking her to do. Or she will make the adjustment but then be frustrated that her pitches "don't feel right". She stuck right now with not gaining much speed. She's on the small side. Not quite 5'. Just turned 11. Started in Fall throwing 41-42 when adjusting to the bigger ball and 40'. Now she's at like 44-45. She's the smallest / slowest pitcher on her team and that frustrates her. Her forte is deceptive pitches and placement since she's not blowing past batters. So basically she needs to change some stuff. But her lack of being receptive to my advice at her practices coupled with her frustration level when dealing with change have us at an impasse. Did I mention she's 11 and hitting that oh so fun age of extreme growth spurt and attitude? https://vimeo.com/189319142.
Would love any advice you've got


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Run the video to the seven second mark and you will see that she has let her left leg bend and she has sat into her wind up. Get the left leg straightened so she is an attack posture to push. Obviously read Drive Mechanics. When she starts her separation from the pitching rubber her foot just pivots and toes point to second indicating she doesn't have much push from that drive leg. Most of her energy looks to me coming from the stride leg and pitching arm swinging out not so much from the drive leg. As a result the back side seems to linger through the pitch instead of adducting to the midline. I totally agree with everyone she is missing the isolation of the upper arm and whip of the lower arm at release. What they said regarding 9s and 12s.

 

[KneeHighSocks]

I know you don't want to hear this because I was right where you are at this age but if you want to really change the motion you need to not have her pitching in games right now. I know it sucks. That's the fun part. We love seeing our girls in the circle doing their thing and having fun. But she needs to be working on Boardmembers drills - 9:00, Lock-it In and Show it and Throw it. I would also throw in some push backs to help strengthen that front leg at the end and learn to keep her weight back. Don't worry about location and if she can throw anything remotely close to a strike with the I/R right now you just need about 5,000-10,000 reps of that arm bent and that ball staying on top longer on the back side. We tried to do what you're doing and keep playing and it took us 2 years to get where we are now and probably would have gotten here in 6 months if we'd just focused on one style instead of drilling one way and then going out and pitching full motion and she'd immediately go back to her muscle memory at full motion. And my DD would probably be better now than she is if we'd really just quit and started over instead of half starting over for 18 months before we committed. Maybe other people have had better luck changing mid course - I know Java had a whole thing about working on things during full motion - but that might be different than full motion IN GAMES. Where your focus is on the batter and not on your motion.

this is right on . just wanted to add that she really does SOMETIMES get the IR correct. She will have the bend in her arm and everything falls into place. It's just not the norm. This video I took in the beginning of her practice, before I reminded her of stuff and she did actually make corrections and looked better by midway through. This clip is me trying to get the worst pitch she threw if that makes sense.

so, this weekend is her last tournament until Spring. We are just going to stick it out for the next couple of games, then I'm actually giving her 3-4 weeks off. then we will start fresh. Her team is actually doing a pitching clinic with Rick Pauly at the end of next month. She won't pitch until then. We may start on some of the drills mid to end of next month but no full pitching until after seeing Pauly and starting with her regular PC in December . Hopefully it will be a good break/reset. and she will be able to focus on the new.

 

[Classof2020]

this is right on . just wanted to add that she really does SOMETIMES get the IR correct. She will have the bend in her arm and everything falls into place. It's just not the norm. This video I took in the beginning of her practice, before I reminded her of stuff and she did actually make corrections and looked better by midway through. This clip is me trying to get the worst pitch she threw if that makes sense.

so, this weekend is her last tournament until Spring. We are just going to stick it out for the next couple of games, then I'm actually giving her 3-4 weeks off. then we will start fresh. Her team is actually doing a pitching clinic with Rick Pauly at the end of next month. She won't pitch until then. We may start on some of the drills mid to end of next month but no full pitching until after seeing Pauly and starting with her regular PC in December . Hopefully it will be a good break/reset. and she will be able to focus on the new.

That sounds great!! you will be fine she has a LOT going well for her and she will make great gains over the winter. And you can't ask for better input than from Rick Pauly!!

 

[Crystal Brown]

this is right on . just wanted to add that she really does SOMETIMES get the IR correct. She will have the bend in her arm and everything falls into place. It's just not the norm. This video I took in the beginning of her practice, before I reminded her of stuff and she did actually make corrections and looked better by midway through. This clip is me trying to get the worst pitch she threw if that makes sense.

so, this weekend is her last tournament until Spring. We are just going to stick it out for the next couple of games, then I'm actually giving her 3-4 weeks off. then we will start fresh. Her team is actually doing a pitching clinic with Rick Pauly at the end of next month. She won't pitch until then. We may start on some of the drills mid to end of next month but no full pitching until after seeing Pauly and starting with her regular PC in December . Hopefully it will be a good break/reset. and she will be able to focus on the new.

Seems like you have a good plan. The good thing about working with Rick Pauly besides the fact that he knows what he is talking about, is his ability to communicate in a way where the student understands it as well.

 

[KneeHighSocks]

That sounds great!! you will be fine she has a LOT going well for her and she will make great gains over the winter. And you can't ask for better input than from Rick Pauly!!

Seems like you have a good plan. The good thing about working with Rick Pauly besides the fact that he knows what he is talking about, is his ability to communicate in a way where the student understands it as well.

thanks guys. I appreciate all the help. Sometimes a pitchers mama needs a little boost as well . I know she will be ok. Better than ok. She has a great PC. and I have the great world of DFP. we can't go wrong. I just needed others to see what I was seeing. and the validation that I am correct in my thinking and plans going forward.

We are excited to meet Rick Pauly. I have watched several of his videos. His teaching style is actually pretty similar to what her PC teaches, his terminology may be a little different and that may be a good thing may make something click in her. He also focuses on the brush a little more than her PC does. I think DD want's to naturally brush and at some point tweaked her mechanics to avoid it and that could be why she is pushing the ball and basically falling apart on release. It will be interesting to see what Pauly says.