help with "partial sidearm"

[fastpitch91]

i have a student who has a mechanics problem ( or so I beleive, tell me if I am wrong). I am working on getting pics from a video and to try to figure out how to post them but figured id ask in words now.

If a "full sidearm pitch" would have the fore arm parallel to the ground and a "proper" fastpitch would have the forearm pointing straght down - so 90 degrees from proper to full. Her arm is roughly 30 degrees away from her body as the ball passes the thigh.

Now it seems to me that her throwing shoulder dips down and to the right of the power line, but its hard to tell if this is casue or effect - after all the arm and shoulder are connected - of the hand position. The elbow is doing pretty well, leading the hand down the back side and all that.

Now my presumption is that this is no good. Right or wrong on this????

Now asusming this partial sidearm is bad and words alone dont seem to make it change. Any ideas on drills or other thoughts on how I can help her.

I have done things like placing her feet spread on the power line with no -stride and just throwing with the arm into the backstop for 25 balls in a row to try to train the feel of the arm - but back to full motion and back to the problem.

The result is a slower than normal pitch and usually one outside or wild as she trys all sort of contortions to figure how to release on an arc at the "right" time.

(player is 14, 5-9, 4 years experience, throwing in the 54/55 range on a jugs gun when the arm stays "good".)

thanks

 

[shockcoach]

Now my presumption is that this is no good. Right or wrong on this????

No, it's not good. It's an illegal pitch.

ASA - Rule 6, Section 3E.

 

[ifubuildit]

Fast

A few quick questions.

1. Does she hit her back hip often?

2. When the arm comes around in the windmill is it coming in front of her face on a consistent basis?

3. Is she swimming the glove hand?

Let me know about these and I will give you a couple of correction ideas.

Dana

 

[sjsss]

FP-
"If a "full sidearm pitch" would have the fore arm parallel to the ground and a "proper" fastpitch would have the forearm pointing straight down - so 90 degrees from proper to full. Her arm is roughly 30 degrees away from her body as the ball passes the thigh."



I assume that you are saying that the forearm is 30 degrees away from the body, not the entire arm. Making this assumption, it would seem without seeing her that her arm is not completing it’s “internal rotation”. Is the palm still partially facing up when it passes her hip? If she were completing the normal internal rotation of her forearm, this movement in and of itself would force the forearm to move towards the hip as the arm lengthens in this phase of the circle. Have her exaggerate her internal rotation by squeezing the ball with her thumb as the forearm moves from 9 O’clock to 12. If I am understanding the problem correctly, her arm will lengthen and the forearm will move (rotate) closer to her hip if the forearm is rotating “internally” properly. This is a confusing explanation that would be simple if I could demonstrate. I had a student in the past that had the same problem, it took some work and time but she fixed it.

 

[fastpitch91]

A few quick questions.

1. Does she hit her back hip often? never that I have seen

2. When the arm comes around in the windmill is it coming in front of her face on a consistent basis? from behind it seems a bit too far behind her head but not a lot. maybe "half a ball " behind her head. we ahve worked on moving her hand at the top further away from her head and that has helped some,

3. Is she swimming the glove hand? by swimming i assume you mean letting it fly left of her body in a rather dramtic fashion. this is not a problem. she pitches with a Hillhouse start - ball in glove with a short swingback and glove hand goes a littel left of power line but maybe 12" ; from behind I do not see the glove swinging back around her body.

Let me know about these and I will give you a couple of correction ideas. hopefully those reponses are clear, video is in progress
thanks

Dana

see comments i stuck in after your questions

 

[fastpitch91]

sjss
i will try to digest your words into a picture for me and to explain to her. and your 30 degree assumption is correct. I will have to get frame by frame video to see the palm position at hip, my eyes are not that good.

the thumb squeeze is that coming up the front side? 9 -12?? withthe objective to get the ball facing the catcher at 12?

I suspect you are on the right track once I figure it out. I had changed her pitching from pushing the ball down the back side with an extended arm to getting pulling/leading the elbow down the backside ( how I translate IR for the players) and the problem has appeared after several weeks of much improved snap.

She is a very strong so was able to push the pitch at pretty good speed - beleive it or not - and silly old me figured add some good snap and get a few more mph. Instead we got control disaster - although after 3 weeks of good progress.

 

[sjsss]

FP-

9 o'clock coming down the backside of the circle toward the 6o'clock position (bottom of circle - I originally typo 12 - I meant 6) - the hand should be somewhere between palm up and rotating toward 3rd base at this point.

 

[ifubuildit]

Fast

see comments i stuck in after your questions

Since you mentioned that she is doing the cradle like Bill teaches, when she brings both the glove and ball out together (Making and assumption she is doing that and not breaking early) does the ball hand/arm get extended or is there a 45 degree or more bend at the elbow when the ball comes out of the glove? Sometimes they wont get fully extended. By fully extended I do not mean to lock out the elbow.

Dana.

 

[fastpitch91]

Ok folks, got some video





Th eone marked spet is from a few weeks ago when thigs were better ( not perfect, I know that but bettter) and the one marked recent is from this weekend.

I am glad i got her dad to do the vids and I figured how to slow them down as they show a lot. I will let you guys add your advice. FYI one of the areas i have bene focussing on with her is to get her stride foot down earlier - when her arm is at 12. I see in these vids that was never quite accomplished although its a lot better than when we started. She had this Jennie finch like mega huge monster "kick" that had her foot 18" off the ground. My hunch is that the momentum of whipping her arm through with no leg to work against is the root cause of her tilting and the tilt then causes the arm to drift (and i stand corrected in slomo - its the whole arm not just the forearm). But I'll left your greater expertise chime in.

Hopefully the youtube thing works. Still working on how to extract stills from the files. I can se in both old and current that her arm is closer to in the 10 oclock area (sept) and 9 oclock now. I have been trying to get it to 12 - but obviously have failed to help her figure it out yet.

 

[shockcoach]

She's closing her hips way too early. This causes her to pitch around them. Keep them open longer and have them close right behind the pitch. She's also leaning quite a bit as was already mentioned. The third item I noticed is that during her back swing, her shoulders rotate and she's no longer squared up.