Heat or ice???

[GOINGDEEP]

Starting a new thread from the ice comments on 'How many innings'.

My DD was hurt 'rotator cuff' a few weeks ago. We went to the best Orthopedic Surgeon in TN. He said they are doing research now that HEAT is much better than ice after pitching. ( or any athletics )

I'm going to try to type what and why he told me this. He said the ice fools your body by quickly shrinking the tissues. ( meaning your body thinks it doesn't need to repair ) But the heat makes your system think their is fever in the area and send the 'repair team' to see what the problem is.

He has been working with Level 10 cheerleaders and their injuries. He said he has been able to reduce injury time from 4-6 weeks down to 1-2 weeks with heat treatments.

I am not a doctor.......just asking if anyone has had similar advice. Too stay away from ice.


P.S. I know Mudbug is going to say "going to the best doctor in TN, is like having the best snow blower in Florida".

 

[ifubuildit]

Different discussion.

My comments about the Ice were in terms of prevention of inflammation after pitching. Not in relationship to injury. In terms of injury the rule has always been Ice for the first 48 to 72 hours to reduce swelling then use heat.

We have been using ice on athletes for decades to reduce swelling. In MLB every pitcher ices after the use their arms. Same in college and with Olympic athletics. Pro football players sit in tubs of ice after games.

All to reduce swelling.

Dana.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

My comments about the Ice were in terms of prevention of inflammation after pitching. Not in relationship to injury. In terms of injury the rule has always been Ice for the first 48 to 72 hours to reduce swelling then use heat.

We have been using ice on athletes for decades to reduce swelling. In MLB every pitcher ices after the use their arms. Same in college and with Olympic athletics. Pro football players sit in tubs of ice after games.

All to reduce swelling.



Dana.

I got to go to my DD HS game. This doctor was a MLB team doc before joining this Orthopedic group. I'll post what he said about it tonight.

 

[mkral]

Dana,

How long can you wait before it is a moot point to ice down in your opinion? A lot of times I don't have ice available at the practice field but maybe I need to.

Thanks
Mike

 

[mudbug]

Im not an expert, but I did have a girlfriend 20 yrs ago that was a PT major and collegiate athletic trainer at a major D1 school.

What I remember, is ice lessens inflamation, which lessens pain . Im not aware of any healing benefit at all, might even be detrimental if you believe your body knows what its doing, its just a comfort thing for the patient. Inflamation is your bodys way of saying "This is hurt, dont move it!".
So of course we take painkillers, ice it and move it anyway.

Its kind of like giving ibuprofen for fever, makes patient feel better but doesnt help you get better, the body is actually trying to fight the invading virus/bacteria by raising body temperature.

Treatment depends on the injury, But for acute injuries, when the initial period of a couple days of icing injuries are over and they start to move around again, the university used to do alternating heat and ice treatments, about 20 min each. Somehow this promoted rapid healing and recovery, and made you feel better too. Injured athletes would come get their treatments a couple times a day. Get rubbed down by ice popsicles and then sit in nice hot whirlpool.

 

[ifubuildit]

Mike

I am not sure that there is a timeline other than the one where I stated that if you have to pitch again within a 4 hour window then dont Ice down the arm. There is always benefit to try to reduce inflammation in the muscles and joints in an athlete when it comes to maintaining the integrity of the shoulder and elbow.

Whats the old saying? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Dana.

 

[mkral]

Whats the old saying? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

No Doubt!!
Thanks Dana!!

 

[96Coach]

I attended the U of A vs ASU game in Tempe AZ and I had the pleasure to sit with Mike Candreas wife and the Head Massage Theripist for the team. She works on the pitchers. Being my dd is a pitcher I asked her some questions. We got to the point as to what to do after a long day of pitching and she mention to us that Ice for 10 minutes then heat for ten minutes then Ice for another 10 and then heat for another 10 to finish. She says that the ice for twenty minutes basically freezes the blood vessels and doesn't allow the blood flow to the area needed to treat the inflamation. She said ice is for swelling heat is for inflamation. The more blood flow to the area that is inflamed the better. I can see where heating the area basically tells the body there is a fever and the body turns on the defense to fix it. We haven't had a tournament since the discussion so I haven't had to use the technique yet. I will post a status after we try it.

 

[coachdan]

I attended the U of A vs ASU game in Tempe AZ and I had the pleasure to sit with Mike Candreas wife and the Head Massage Theripist for the team. She works on the pitchers. Being my dd is a pitcher I asked her some questions. We got to the point as to what to do after a long day of pitching and she mention to us that Ice for 10 minutes then heat for ten minutes then Ice for another 10 and then heat for another 10 to finish. She says that the ice for twenty minutes basically freezes the blood vessels and doesn't allow the blood flow to the area needed to treat the inflamation. She said ice is for swelling heat is for inflamation. The more blood flow to the area that is inflamed the better. I can see where heating the area basically tells the body there is a fever and the body turns on the defense to fix it. We haven't had a tournament since the discussion so I haven't had to use the technique yet. I will post a status after we try it.

I can tell you that my oldest daughter had a severly sprained ankle and doctor told her to get two buckets in one add ice and water and in the other very hot water. She was instructed to put foot in Ice bucket for 3 min then directly out of there into the hot water for 10 min. Then back to the ice for another 3 min and back into the hot water again. Do this as much as possible. Doc says that this increases the blood flow to the hurt area and helps the healing process. Doctor said normal healing time for her injury was 2 to 4 weeks she was playing ball in less than a week.

Let me add this was NOT fun but it works. Ice water was very difficult.

 

[mudbug]

She says that the ice for twenty minutes basically freezes the blood vessels and doesn't allow the blood flow to the area needed to treat the inflamation.QUOTE]

I would say that it might depend on how icing is done. Applying an icepack would be different from immersion in icewater and still different from being rubbed with the popsicles.

I had the ice popsicles done before, the trainers made them in dixie cups with popsicle sticks . They kept them constantly moving. Very hard to sit still.