Glad to hear you say that. My daughter takes lessons from an old baseball player. He throws baseballs overhand at her, usually while sitting.
Front Toss Batting Practice
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Glad to hear you say that. My daughter takes lessons from an old baseball player. He throws baseballs overhand at her, usually while sitting.
I used to do front toss in the basement with golfball wiffles. I would sit on a chair and throw them like a dart from about 12 feet Anything hit at my face I could either duck or bend down and take it off the top of my head. One time she hit a hard one bouncer that came up and hit me right in the nose, I had a crescent shaped cut from one of the holes. After that I started wearing a paintball mask.
This is shocking to me that you do not believe front toss is a valuable hitting drill. IMO, it's the second most important drill, right behind facing live pitching, the #1.
We pitch softballs UNDERHAND about 20 - 25 feet from the batter to locations within and outside the strikezone. We also do a fun drill I learned from this site called "last girl standing" which incorporates the above. The goal with any drill is to incorporate aspects of the drill that batters will face in real games. That is one reason why I am not a big fan of pitching machines since the batter does not see the arm motion and release of the ball out of the hand; the ball is the same speed and location every pitch.
There is a great article this month in Sports Illustrated magazine about hitting and how important it is for the batter to recognize the pitch during the windmill motion to be successful. This is one reason why I feel Hillhouse always stresses to "hide the ball' as much as possible during the windmill to take away the batter's advantage of recognzes pitches early and the pitches likely location.
If you are not front tossing to players, you are doing them a disservice.
None of the hitting coaches I know do this and I have worked with some of the best. What purpose does softtoss in front do that a pitching machine doesn't handle doing the Barry Bonds drill using a Pitching Machine ? Carrier, Paetkau, and Slaught, all didn't front toss, perhaps they have found a better way to accomplish what they want the hitter to work on.
Place the ball in the left hand ready to feed the machine , as your right hand performs a windmill action you bump the ball into the chute so there is not hesitation like you see with some feeding the machine.
Place the ball in the left hand ready to feed the machine , as your right hand performs a windmill action you bump the ball into the chute so there is not hesitation like you see with some feeding the machine.
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- Sep 29, 2010
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SBFAMILY...
You realize that what I am terming front toss is basically pitching to the kids but only from a shortened distance of around 15 to 25 ft from behind a screen?
I do this only because I can't pitch from 43 ft at a speed that would be realistic.
I sometimes stand and throw from a sling shot position and sometimes I sit on a bucket and sling shot them underhand working different parts of the strike zone.
I do this so they have something to time their load and stride from and have to focus on hitting the ball wherever I choose to throw it.
It's not a slow picth either, at least not all the time. Its fairly quick and is supposed to simulate facing a quick pitcher.
You don't believe in this?
Its not "soft toss in the front". Its facing a pitcher on a regular basis, albeit, dear old Dad from a shorter distance with a lot less movement pitches. I just don't understand why you seem to not believe in this...how do you practice slapping with your daughter if you don't front toss?
You realize that what I am terming front toss is basically pitching to the kids but only from a shortened distance of around 15 to 25 ft from behind a screen?
I do this only because I can't pitch from 43 ft at a speed that would be realistic.
I sometimes stand and throw from a sling shot position and sometimes I sit on a bucket and sling shot them underhand working different parts of the strike zone.
I do this so they have something to time their load and stride from and have to focus on hitting the ball wherever I choose to throw it.
It's not a slow picth either, at least not all the time. Its fairly quick and is supposed to simulate facing a quick pitcher.
You don't believe in this?
Its not "soft toss in the front". Its facing a pitcher on a regular basis, albeit, dear old Dad from a shorter distance with a lot less movement pitches. I just don't understand why you seem to not believe in this...how do you practice slapping with your daughter if you don't front toss?
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Most of the good hitting coaches I know do this, including the hitting coaches at UCLA.
Throwing fast, front toss using real softballs is very valuable because the action of the ball is the same as the one they will see in the game. You can also easily throw the ball to any location (up/down, inside/outside). I even throw-in a flip change occasionally to keep them from just sitting on the fastball.
Here's the problem with using pitching machines:
- the balls used are generally not the same one used in the game and therefore do not react the same as game balls;
- the machine pitched ball is the same speed everytime unless you change it every pitch (which is never done, takes too long to speed up or slow down the wheel each pitch)
- the "pitcher" is hidden by the machine, and even though you can simulate the windmill (arm movement only) the release of the ball is hidden to the batter which is crictial to picking up the pitch early and seeing its location and spin;
- the location of the pitched ball is the same each pitch and so even marginal batters can groove the ball after a few pitches.
I would recommend that pitching machines are used infrequently and use the time you have devoted to hitting to facing:
live pitching
front toss (as described previously)
tee work
front toss (TCB balls and wiffles)
Remember one of the important goals of pitching is to disrupt the batter's timing, so you need to place the batter in a lot of situations where they need to constantly adjust to the pitched ball. Pitching machines do a bad job of working on this skill. I have seen too many teams that live in the batting cages using pitching machines and hit the ball consistently and frequently. Put these same players in a game situation and they struggle to make good contact. Facing a pitching machine and facing a real pitcher are two different animals.
- Sep 29, 2010
- 165
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Oh, and one other thing. I have both RVP softball hitting DVD's and the second baseball hitting DVD. As you know Slaught is responsible for those.
The models that show the drills being done, show somebody standing behind a screen sling shotting balls or tossing them in.
While, they never mention front toss in the instruction, they certainly are utilizing front toss in their video examples for a bunch of the drills they do.
The models that show the drills being done, show somebody standing behind a screen sling shotting balls or tossing them in.
While, they never mention front toss in the instruction, they certainly are utilizing front toss in their video examples for a bunch of the drills they do.
I'm guessing from your posts you have never heard of the Barry Bonds Drill? Next softball is a game of timing. So from your posts you are not throwing from the same distance and speed of a pitcher. Always insist on a sense of timing when using a pitching machine, live pitching or front toss. I see way to many coaches’ just throwing balls so everyone gets some swings and in my opinion it destroys their timing and rhythm…keep it real or do not waste the hitter’s time because you the coach have not made time! Yes I know all about what is on RVP by Don, Mike and Sue and it was done in RVP to demo a drill. Most college program face live pitching from 43 feet, I have seen none soft toss from a shorter distance, say from 25 feet. So when does the kid load and go to toe touch at 25 feet? . This is the same reason the best don't believe you move them up in the box to face a slow pitcher. You are building a swing DNA for a batter and you are destroying it in my opinion. Next you you are so concerned about a pitching machine use two . I have two feeding the machines one set at one speed the other at a different speed and the hitter doesn't know who will be putting the ball thru to hit. The Barry Bonds drill . Now get your bat and start back beyond where the umpire sets up. You will be working low pitched balls and moving forward on each pitch and creating what we term a swing DNA because you are making timing and rhythm adjustments on every pitch. Again after you reached a point where the ball is no longer hittable i.e. the ball is above the hands then reverse your direction until you can no longer hit the ball or run out of room in the cage.
For practicing outside pitches move away from the plate and complete a cycle and for inside pitches crowd the plate and complete a cycle.
This drill is not about batting practice it is about adjusting slow to fast and down to up and fast to slow and up then down…just like a pitcher does in a game.
Every time you hit the ball you take a step forward, till you no longer can hit the ball. I have some kids that can get really close.
Plus Howard Carrier uses baseballs not softballs.
For practicing outside pitches move away from the plate and complete a cycle and for inside pitches crowd the plate and complete a cycle.
This drill is not about batting practice it is about adjusting slow to fast and down to up and fast to slow and up then down…just like a pitcher does in a game.
Every time you hit the ball you take a step forward, till you no longer can hit the ball. I have some kids that can get really close.
Plus Howard Carrier uses baseballs not softballs.
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I have seen it posted a couple times that one of the issues of using a pitching machine is that every pitch goes to the same location. What kind of machine is everyone using? Every machine I have seen used around here varies greatly from pitch to pitch, sometimes frustratingly so.
The hitting coach we see values both soft toss and machine work as well as Tee work.
It is very important that the machine be fed properly or it can inhibit or even ruin a batters timing.
The hitting coach we see values both soft toss and machine work as well as Tee work.
It is very important that the machine be fed properly or it can inhibit or even ruin a batters timing.
Yes, I have heard of the Barry Bonds drill. Not saying that a pitching machine is useless, just that it is overrated by many coaches. Is it better than doing nothing, of course it's better, but I have seen great results with both my team and DD when incorporating front toss into every one of my hitting practices.
Is front toss perfect, no. That is why I stated that Live Pitching is #1 on my hitting drill list that should be used as often as feasible in practice. The next best drill is Front Toss. It incorporates most aspects of live pitching: human pitcher, real softball, ball released from the hand, simulates the movement and speed of real pitching, and you can control the location of the pitch easily to work on hitting different spots.
To answer your question about loading: If you are slingshoting the ball, the batter loads as soon as the arm starts coming down; the shorter distance to the plate is offset by the decrease in pitched speed so the reaction time is similar to that of a pitched ball from 43 feet using a game pitcher who throws a lot faster than I do. Try it with some of your players and I think you will see an improvement in their hitting. We are all here to learn, right?
I also encourage you to read the SI article I referenced and it will shed some light on the importance of batters recognizing the pitcher's movement prior to and at release. A pitching machine cannot and will not help replicate this movement. I try to use drills and methods that most closely resemble what a batter will face in game situations.
