I think two factors involved are how the pitcher learned grips and how much exposure the backswing motion gives. If a pitcher has three different grips for three different pitches, it would be important to hide the ball longer. If a pitcher has a long, slow backswing out in the open for everyone to see, there will be more picking.
Fouts pitching out of her glove.
- Thread starter lostcreek1
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My DD switched to out of the glove after her HS 2020 season was killed by covid. Her claim was that she "felt" that her motion was accelerated. Did she pick up pitch velocity?...yes. But how much was that as opposed to strength/speed (run) training, growth and more practice? Who is to say. She did come back the next year and had a terrific HS Sr. season. We both thought the transition was easy however probably best to do during a gap period.
It certainly appeared that was picked in the CWS last year and hit pretty hard. Guessing that's what inspired the change.
I can't think many batters can tell in the fraction of a second the ball is exposed. Especially when pitchers have the same (or very similar) grips on most pitches.
If your stick your knuckle way out on a change, perhaps.
- May 21, 2018
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I remember that being discussed. It's definitely a possibility and would explain the change this late in her career. I've heard Adam Wainright talk about picking pitches a fair amount, and in baseball it seems to be a tell in the delivery. I wonder if that could have been something also.
I just figured she was out of gas at that point, but someone could have picked something up for sure.
- Aug 21, 2008
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Gee, if there was only someone who talked about this YEARS AGO.... hmmm. If only....
- Aug 21, 2008
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This is wrong, sorry drew. First, more and more coaches are learning how to pick pitchers (and the ones that aren't are morons for not trying). this is why you see more and more pitchers doing that stupid, ridiculous twist of their body to the side as they get their grip, believing this is preventing the coach from picking them. LOL. They do their little twist, then drop out of their glove to show everyone what they are hiding in the first place when they do their backswing. Ugggh.
Anyway, usually from day 1, a little girl is told to focus on the pitcher's hip, that's where the ball comes from. Pitchers who either swing back or simply drop out of their glove early are giving those hitters the chance to see the ball and it's grip at the very place they were told to look at from the time she was 8 yrs old. Anyway, it's rare, almost unheard of, for a pitcher to use the same grip for each pitch. There's differences in 99.999999% of pitcher's grips. (here come the emails about how someone's kid throws with the same grip on all pitches!! lol). And, it's not just a knuckle being tucked. It can be the amount of hand seen, the side of the ball the hand is on, or any other subtle difference that can show a hitter what pitch is coming. And this is why I have said, idk 2 million times??, that there is a big difference between hitting coaches teaching a swing and teaching them to hit. There's big differences. More and more fastpitch people who know how to pick pitchers are helping today's ball players, and the results are there to be seen. Both the way the pitchers are trying to avoid being picked, and the results of the hitter learning how to do it themselves (or help from a coach).
Picking a pitcher can be a lot of things, I don't even consider it "picking the pitcher" when they do the backswing. As a hitter in fastpitch softball, I'd call that a gift. Picking is when they aren't showing you in advance what's coming but still being able to see it somehow. This can be little things that only the observant see, maybe the hands come together higher on the stomach for one pitch, and lower on the belt for another. Or the hand is further in the glove for one pitch, but more out on another. Maybe the glove is tilted or angled on a particular pitch but not on others. There's a lot of ways to pick and be picked. I knew a guy who would give his change up away because he unknowingly would stick his tongue out onto his upper lip when throwing a change up. If we saw the tongue, we knew the change was coming.
Quite often someone smarter than me will show the reaction time a hitter has to hitting a softball. Starting from 43 feet (although we all know it's released much closer) and before there was multiple girls throwing 70mph. The reaction time was ridiculously fast. So, are we to believe they are just that fast at reflex's on when to swing, but are incapable to seeing the pitch ahead of time? Why does the reflex only work on reaction time but not in the ability to see the ball, grip on the ball, before it's thrown?
Knowing what's coming is 1/2 the battle for a hitter. And you might thing I'm making this up, but if anyone goes to the men's world championship, it's not uncommon for a pitcher to be seen wearing one long sleeve and one short sleeve on his undershirt. He will cut the sleeve off of his glove hand's arm but, leave the pitching arm covered. Why? Because hitters are looking at his forearm muscles to see them flex or twitch for certain pitches. I know I did that one time when I thought that's why I was getting picked. Turns out it was the catcher giving away the pitches on accident. I'm harder to pick than a broken nose.
Finally, I flat out refuse to believe it was Alabama's new PC that got Fouts to switch. I don't know what caused her to change her motion but, I can promise you that Montana Fouts has forgot more about pitching than that guy hired at Alabama.
- Feb 7, 2014
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Been to the men's world tournament a couple times as a kid in the 90s. I remember it being quite a spectical.
- Dec 16, 2010
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Appreciate the explanation.
I read that Fouts' dad is a pitching coach and I remember her saying he still gives her feedback.
I also read that the Bama pitching coach started out as a behind-a-net batting practice pitcher for Missouri (I think) when Doug Gillis was the pitching coach there--and doesn't have your actual pitching experience. Is that why you're skeptical about him? Or is there something else you can share?
- Aug 21, 2008
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I did a showcase camp with the new Bama PC last summer. That was the first time I had met him, he was still at Illinois at the time. If you dig into Google far enough, there was a segment on the news when he threw BP at Missouri (you're right, Gilly was the pitching coach then, Earlywhine was the HC). In the piece it talked about his pitching knowledge coming from attending his sister's lessons and games. A perfect example of someone who could've tried pitching some games for himself, even at the lowest of men's FP levels, the way Kirk Walker at UCLA has. I wish I could say that doing that would've made him invaluable as a PC, but he's already got the Bama job so who am I to give career advice in this field? And before anyone even thinks of asking, no I was not a candidate for the Bama job!! I don't have a college degree, which is something most (not all) P5 schools require. I went to New Zealand after finishing high school for my first season pitching internationally. Ironically, that decision disqualified me from becoming a P5 college coach.
To be clear though, I have not seen Fout's new delivery. Maybe I'll YouTube it later to see. I'd be curious where she picked it up. Going from a backswing to no backswing is NOT an easy transition. I used to backswing when I was first starting out, until learning how much it helped the opposition.
I too heard Fout's dad is a PC. I'm told he always wanted to be the travel ball team's PC so he could call her pitches.
I really hope my son makes the Olympics so I can give private swim lessons.
