"Everything's inside" help needed

[Kelly Clinevell]

There's a 16yo girl who I've seen play for four season. She has had the ability to pull the outside pitch but the ability to do it consistently has diminished to the point where her average has dropped off significantly. She has pretty consistently had all the bad things happen that happen when you try to pull the outside pitch.
I've coached her for a couple of seasons and this past weekend I worked with her because her frustration and discouragement have gotten bad. Her highschool coaches, travel coaches, and stepdad have focused on her mechanics. I wasn't going to give her any more/conflicting advice about mechanics but wanted to focus on her vision.
We first established that she was same side dominant and what that meant. I then had her stand at the plate in front of a pitching mat that had a marked catch pouch. I had her get in her stance and watch pitched balls all the way into the pouch. We did this for about 60 pitches and then she called out whether she believed the pitches were inside or outside before they got there and continue to follow the ball into the pouch. This gave her immediate feedback on her location identification. She saw virtually everything as inside unless it was well off of the plate. The lower the pitch the more accurate she was. I was doing a fast front toss from 20-25 feet.
She is also a catcher and it has seemed to me that at times she was reaching for the ball before it got there. I'm really not sure where to go now. I thought about having her hit front toss with an eye patch and see if we can gather any more info that might give us clues as to what's going on. There are no sportsvision clinics in our area. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[andyh64000]

Why do you want her to pull an outside pitch?

 

[Kelly Clinevell]

Why do you want her to pull an outside pitch?

-


I don't want her to pull an outside pitch - that's just what she tries to do. I was saying that she has pulled outside pitches since she was in 12U and has actually had some success with it in the past. Because she got away with it when she was younger it wasn't addressed like maybe it should have been. She's not having success with that approach now. She seems to be recognizing most pitches outside and I just wondered what thoughts other might have on how to address this.

 

[2 DD Coach]

When she's catching does she tend to reach for the ball all the time, or only when there is runners on? Trying to anticipate the steal often causes the catcher to reach for the ball. Just wondering because this could have nothing to do with her batting issues. It also seems odd that if she catches on a regular basis, she would have such an issue ID'ing pitches across the plate. Is it possible that a couple years of always trying to pull outside has got her timing out of whack, and now shes up against faster pitchers?

 

[Kelly Clinevell]

When she's catching does she tend to reach for the ball all the time, or only when there is runners on? Trying to anticipate the steal often causes the catcher to reach for the ball. Just wondering because this could have nothing to do with her batting issues. It also seems odd that if she catches on a regular basis, she would have such an issue ID'ing pitches across the plate. Is it possible that a couple years of always trying to pull outside has got her timing out of whack, and now shes up against faster pitchers?

I noticed what I thought was her closing her glove early while she was catching off of a machine. I've heard people assume that she was a sucker for a changeup but she can sit back and wait on a changeup. I really haven't seen the speed of the pitcher be a significant factor in her success. I've seen her do well and I've seen her do poorly against fast and slow pitchers. The only thing that seems pretty consistent is she reaches/tries to pull the outside pitch. The other interesting thing is that she has more difficulty with the inside pitch but doesn't get it thrown to her very often.

 

[Hitter]

In my opinion get her eyes checked.

With that said take an object and have her focus on it at about 36 inches away at nose level and slowly move it towards her eyes and see if BOTH eyes turn inwardly or if one eye lags a little behind the other.

The action of both eyes moving inwardly is termed accommodation or convergence and it is how we focus on a moving object.

There are six muscles attached to the inside of the skull that are termed extra ocular muscles and the pencil drill seems to help strengthen those muscles to work together.

I would also look at her stance and then where she actually strides.

Thanks Howard

 

[Chris O'Leary]

There's a 16yo girl who I've seen play for four season. She has had the ability to pull the outside pitch but the ability to do it consistently has diminished to the point where her average has dropped off significantly.

Generally, to be able to pull the outside pitch you have to make some compromise, like crowding the plate or an arm bar, that leaves you very vulnerable to pitches inside.

 

[Hitter]

From the net....All "pun" fun aside, the doctors made it evident that all people have a dominant eye but in baseball this fact does not alter hitting or pitching ability. They even went so far as to say with studies there is no indication that cross-eyed "dominance" does not make a left eyed dominant right hand hitter any better or worse a hitter than a right eyed dominant right hand hitter. Again, knowing a little basic anatomy would tell you that no two bodily systems are alike as no two limbs, organs, eyes, et. al. are identically alike in precise form and information sensing and transmittal to different portions of the brain for evaluation."

The following is from the article linked below:

"So there are several cognitive factors that affect hitting, what about the visual
aspect of hitting? (Hofeldt, 1993) implied that visual ability as measured by
stereo photometry accounts for 47% or more of the variation in batting averages of the Major League players."


Considering it has been around .266 what would you work on first? Vision or mechanics?

If this is true and you could potentially improve your ability to hit the ball by improving your vision or ability to see the ball better it would be my first move!

Get your eyes checked!

Next are you using an open, closed or parallel stance?

How do you measure off from the plate as to distance from home plate?

Do you roll the shoulder in or not?

What action by the pitchers triggers your load and what action by the pitcher triggers your stride?

Vision and timing first.

Then you can assign what else makes up the difference of the 53% or has the most affect on the MLB Elite Swing Pattern as to stance, connection,bat lag, contact, extension and finish.

Most focus on just one thing and I wonder what affect it really has on the 53% and why the averages have not improved any more statistically?

What affects vision in our swing could explain a lot of things not just pulling an outside pitch however it may be a start of shifting our thought process from the ground up and assigning the degree of importance to each component of the swing.

Maybe some of the style is more important than we once gave it credit for.

Thanks Howard

 

[Erik]

There's a 16yo girl who I've seen play for four season. She has had the ability to pull the outside pitch but the ability to do it consistently has diminished to the point where her average has dropped off significantly. She has pretty consistently had all the bad things happen that happen when you try to pull the outside pitch.
I've coached her for a couple of seasons and this past weekend I worked with her because her frustration and discouragement have gotten bad. Her highschool coaches, travel coaches, and stepdad have focused on her mechanics. I wasn't going to give her any more/conflicting advice about mechanics but wanted to focus on her vision.
We first established that she was same side dominant and what that meant. I then had her stand at the plate in front of a pitching mat that had a marked catch pouch. I had her get in her stance and watch pitched balls all the way into the pouch. We did this for about 60 pitches and then she called out whether she believed the pitches were inside or outside before they got there and continue to follow the ball into the pouch. This gave her immediate feedback on her location identification. She saw virtually everything as inside unless it was well off of the plate. The lower the pitch the more accurate she was. I was doing a fast front toss from 20-25 feet.
She is also a catcher and it has seemed to me that at times she was reaching for the ball before it got there. I'm really not sure where to go now. I thought about having her hit front toss with an eye patch and see if we can gather any more info that might give us clues as to what's going on. There are no sportsvision clinics in our area. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Does this hitter your desrcribing crowd the plate? Do you have any video of this hitter? Take a look at the clips below and try to get a feel for the positives of being off the plate. I like the way this hitter walks away from the hands to create stretch and keeps the lead arm up away from the body ready to pull back to and through the hitting zone.

Lil'E VIPSSY

 

[Kelly Clinevell]

I wouldn't say she crowds the plate but she does get fairly close. I don't have any video.